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“Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

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Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#511

Post by jjk166 »

Spivak wrote: post #465
jjk166 wrote: post #445

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's say you subscribe to something as part of a 3rd party bundle, like say you sign up for newsletter A and there's a whole bunch of other options and you leave newsletter B selected to also subscribe to that. Then the workflow for unsubscribing from B would be going through the subscription workflow for A. This would be bad for all parties: it may be difficult or even impossible for the B group to change A's subsc…

I'm gonna need one concrete example of this because I cannot for the life of me think of a single instance where bundled subscriptions, "buying Showtime through your cable provider" shouldn't be required to allow cancellation through the place you bought it. Sure, it sucks day one that 3rd party sellers don't have cancellation flows but it's not an intractable problem.

You misunderstand, having the option to cancel through the place you bought it is perfectly reasonable, the problem is when you can only cancel showtime via your cable provider because that's how you happened to purchase it.

For example, I recently purchased a new car. I had to go there in person and do a whole bunch of paperwork. While I was there, I registered my new vehicle, got an insurance plan for it, and financing for the auto loan. Imagine if to change insurance providers, I had to go back to the dealership and spend 3 hours doing paperwork because that was the workflow by which I just happened to get my last provider. It would be absurd, and I'd probably never go through the trouble even if my insurance provider was more expensive than competitors.

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#512

Post by smabie »

koheripbal wrote: post #291
88913527 wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone with access to a public library (photo ID will get you a free library card) can access eLibrary services that get updated daily. No need to pay for NYT, for WSJ, or any major national newspaper. By paying taxes, you're already paying for digital access to this media. I applaud the FTC's decision but I wish people realized there's more practical means for accessing media that is more frequently locked behind pa…

Not only is this not true everywhere, it can also be much more cumbersome to access. Not to mention that supporting quality journalism is probably one of the best things you can do today to make the world better.

Honest question: where can I actually find quality journalism?

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#513

Post by handrous »

baby wrote: post #506
edge17 wrote: post #493

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems to be a common design pattern on iOS App Store as well. Download a 'free' app and don't let the user use the app in trial mode unless they click a button that gets them to sign up, subscribe, or buy some in app purchase.

I really really hate this pattern on iOS. This and the app that is completely filled with ads.

Apple-mediated subscriptions are at least easy to list & cancel.

I do wish they'd 1) allow explicit demo versions of apps—using IAP to have a de-facto demo that requires IAP to upgrade just isn't as good, IMO, because I want to be able to distinguish demo-to-paid from nickel-and-diming IAP garbage, and 2) have an actually-free filter for apps that don't have ads, IAP, a paid upgrade, or heavy reliance on a paid account of some kind.

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#514

Post by danlugo92 »

nobody9999 wrote: post #481

Dark patterns aren't just for cancellations. A couple years back, a friend bought me a one year gift subscription for Britbox[0]. When I tried to activate the gift subscription, the site refused to allow me to do so unless I provided them with a credit card number. Which, from a practical standpoint, makes no sense as it was a gift . I wasn't going to provide these wankers with my credit card number[0], so I then had…

www.privacy.com www.revolut.com

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#515

Post by Iefthandrule »

Axien wrote: post #352
strenholme wrote: post #344

Since I live in California, which has a “click to subscribe means you must have click to cancel” regulation, this isn’t an issue for me. After the New York Times published their inaccurate hit piece attacking Scott Alexander and Slate Star Codex/Astral Codex Ten, I was able to cancel online just clicking my way through. I now subscribe to The Wall Street Journal, which looks to be the most neutral newspaper right now…

That is crazy. I spent 20 minutes trying to cancel the WSJ. It is infuriating.

This would seem like an obvious topic for rival publications to run with.

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#516

Post by MisterBastahrd »

Seems like a lot of box subscription companies are gonna need to do some work this holiday season. There are a lot of companies out there who are also posing as US entities when they're really based overseas and have small LLCs as US affiliates who sell whitelisted products who will be affected too.

Recently I purchased a yearly subscription for an app from a foreign "health" company and after the checkout process, I was presented with some supplement options. These options were showing a discount on a per-month basis, but were also deceptively packaged in such a way that (a) the price was actually per month, and (b) if you chose ANY of the items on the screen, you were immediately billed for them without checkout.

Realizing that they just hit me for $270 for half a year's supply of supplements, I immediately sent an email to their customer service that I wanted my money refunded because I did not intend to pay a quarter grand on what were essentially fiber pills. These are shipped from a California warehouse. It was past midnight CST.

Twenty minutes later, I receive an email telling me that they are sorry but my order has been processed and there's nothing they can do, but if I wanted, they could send RMA instructions on the package. Their terms of service dictates that they have a "no-refund" policy and will only accept returns if there is physical damage to the shipped product. I asked again, and was rebutted again with the same sort of nonsense. Nobody was processing an order for a small goods company in California after midnight.

Welp... my next email to them informed the customer service rep that it was past midnight in California so no shipping had occurred. That I worked for a company with local and national news reach and I would be glad to share the information of my story, the app, the company name, and the parent company name with reporters who would be interested in covering deceptive business practices.

10 minutes later, I received an email apologizing for their transgression and another confirming that the charges were reversed.

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#517

Post by sempron64 »

I subscribed to Verizon Fios service entirely online but when moving I found out there was no way to cancel except to call their support and bounce through several numbers. Quite annoying. However, because when signing up you do need to have a technician come to your residence, so there is some non-online interaction, it might not be against the rules.

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#518

Post by danlugo92 »

Axien wrote: post #352
strenholme wrote: post #344

Since I live in California, which has a “click to subscribe means you must have click to cancel” regulation, this isn’t an issue for me. After the New York Times published their inaccurate hit piece attacking Scott Alexander and Slate Star Codex/Astral Codex Ten, I was able to cancel online just clicking my way through. I now subscribe to The Wall Street Journal, which looks to be the most neutral newspaper right now…

That is crazy. I spent 20 minutes trying to cancel the WSJ. It is infuriating.

www.privacy.com

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#519

Post by registeredcorn »

eckesicle wrote: post #502

Meanwhile in Scandinavia: You are legally entitled to unsubscribe from any contract in any way that is most comfortable to you. [0] For example, you can: * send them a letter * send them an email * call them and tell anyone who picks up the phone * write it on a napkin and hand it to an employee All are equally legit and legally binding. Companies obviously do not want to deal with the manual overhead, so services ty…

I'm interested to know:

* Does this apply to all of Scandinavia, or only specifically Finland and Sweden?

* How do they avoid abuse of the system? I.e. I unsubscribe you on your behalf by pretending to be you. Surely at least one person must be doing this maliciously on a constant basis.

* How many subscription companies are there in countries where this applies compared to countries where there are no such laws? Given the burden, it seems logical to completely ignore and actively avoid the countries where this applies.

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#520

Post by ratww »

makapuf wrote: post #411
ratww wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Well a simple email would be too easy to forge. Email is how thousands of SaaS handle cancellations today already. > But I'm sure its not hard to setup something I "your account" page. That's the whole point of the subthread...

Email reception, yes. Email sending is different, you would need to check DKIM that the sender is really the one, and that has also some setup cost.

I'm sorry, I don't think your posts have anything to do with my message or with this thread.
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