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Divorce does funny things

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Re: Divorce does funny things

#351

Post by Fire-Dragon-DoL »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #303
acoard wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ~50% of married couple divorce That figure is outdated and I'd challenge what it represents. Here's more up to date info: >The most recent data we have from the 2019 American Community Survey puts the rate at 14.9 divorces per 1,000 marriages, the lowest number since 1970. [0] Further, the "50% of marriages end in divorce" is heavily skewed because it includes serial divorces/remarriages. If 5 couples marry for lif…

The increasing percentage of non-divorcing marriages might be self-selecting in a sense since it is now socially acceptable to never get married, so we miss out on ‘breakups’ that are long/medium term. (E.g. non-married couples sleeping together for 5 years and having no children and then having a horrible breakup is more likely today than 100 years ago, and they are lost in the divorce statistic).

The topic is the financial problem though, so that statistic would be irrelevant.

In a certain way, 5 years together and then breakup is what you should be aiming for, rather than marriage + kids and then breakup. The first one is "the test bed", the latter is a mess

Re: Divorce does funny things

#352

Post by bitexploder »

tsol wrote: post #257
bitexploder wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have stood by a couple of friends over the years that went through really tough divorces. When you have children and the divorce is mostly forced on you it is very tough. It does funny things, as the article says. I told my friend once, with more insight than I realized at the time, something like this: “this will break you or make you something of a philosopher.” To that end I like the Stoics. A lot is out of our…

That reminds me of a Socrates quote "By all means marry. If you get a good wife, you'll be happy. If you get a bad one, you'll become a philosopher."

Hah, you know, that is probably where that originated from in my brain. I read that quote a long time ago! Thank you :)

Re: Divorce does funny things

#353

Post by ameminator »

mixmastamyk wrote: post #314
quietbritishjim wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The author of the article (or the editor) also must have thought that it was a key aspect of the article given that it was chosen to be the title. And there wasn't a great deal else in the article (some discussion of oil rigs, including Piper Alpha, but not much specifics). We never got to find out what the stories written by the person being interviewed were. I actually found it a bit odd, like it was an introductio…

Agreed, felt I was dropped into a big-oil exposé and then it made a left turn and stopped.

That was exactly the feeling I had. I actually thought it was a very interesting article about the life of an oil rig worker. Suddenly, and in a throwaway fashion, we get a rumor about some unfortunate man and that's all. If this was meant to be an article about divorce, why wasn't there more divorce-related material? If this was supposed to be about oil rigs, why not focus on that and change the title? Very jarring experience all-around.

Re: Divorce does funny things

#354

Post by ameminator »

gremloni wrote: post #332
bradlys wrote: post #289

I can say with great confidence - do not get married. Do not live in a common law state. You will very likely regret it immensely. If I had been legally married to my ex - I would’ve been raked over the coals. I could see myself being the man on that rig. She contributed nothing to our relationship (financially or emotionally) and I put her through college while she didn’t work or pay for anything. Yet, even if I sho…

I funnel all my money into crypto and then into cash in another country. Good luck finding that.

You know, it's best not to leave evidence of or admit to a crime. However, I am not a lawyer...

Re: Divorce does funny things

#355

Post by BirdieNZ »

bradlys wrote: post #327
BirdieNZ wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am sincerely grieved for you and your situation, and wish you find joy and perhaps re-discover trust for women in the future. Hopefully it is not poor taste, but I do disagree with your advice. Yes, marriage comes with a great deal of risk, because it is codifying your love. Love itself is risk, though. As C.S. Lewis said: > To love at all is to be vulnerable. Love anything and your heart will be wrung and possibly…

Try to trust me when I say this - when you’re looking at many years of not having to work and you don’t even have to foot the lawyer bill to make it happen… it’s not as difficult as you think. It’s not a picnic but it’s not purgatory either. If you were fortunate enough to marry a similarly earning woman then congratulations. Unfortunately - those are exceptional for this industry. At least where I am - it is rare to…

> Your marriage could end at any point. You just live naively thinking it won’t

Oh, I'm quite aware that it could end (whether due to death or divorce). I choose not to spend my time dwelling on the possibility, because that would be like living in hopelessness. There are a lot of bad things that might happen to us in the future, and some are even likely, but living in constant dread for the future is joylessness.

Re: Divorce does funny things

#356

Post by Viliam1234 »

throwaway_sjfgd wrote: post #334
BirdieNZ wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am sincerely grieved for you and your situation, and wish you find joy and perhaps re-discover trust for women in the future. Hopefully it is not poor taste, but I do disagree with your advice. Yes, marriage comes with a great deal of risk, because it is codifying your love. Love itself is risk, though. As C.S. Lewis said: > To love at all is to be vulnerable. Love anything and your heart will be wrung and possibly…

I'm adding to what bradlys has written in response. Women, marriage, love are different things. We should not let these be confused together. A push back against marriage is not same as that against love, and nor against women in general.

Love and emotional vulnerability are one topic. Specific divorce laws are another topic.

As a thought experiment, imagine pushing the divorce laws even further in the existing direction. Imagine a law saying: "if a wife kills her husband, this is not considered a crime, and she automatically gets all his property". Wouldn't this make men even more emotionally vulnerable? Wouldn't this make marriage a more exciting adventure? How much more attention would we pay to choosing the right partner! Definitely seems like a move in the right direction. (just kidding)

Re: Divorce does funny things

#357

Post by throwaway_sjfgd »

throwaway211116 wrote: post #347
throwaway_sjfgd wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. A question I have is if the STD issue mentioned still valid, as a motivation for monogamy?

I am not qualified to answer. I would tentatively say, decreasingly so. The issue, as I see it, is that although we have preventive measures and prophylactics and treatments (all imperfect), we do not yet have a culture of responsibility and building such a culture is hard. Theoretically we could compensate for the deficiencies of our medicine, through social responsibility. In reality this does not happen. The clear…

Thanks! I am not qualified enough to know a good answer either. Albeit I have alternative thoughts for some points you have made, you seem to know this better than I do.

Re: Divorce does funny things

#358

Post by Viliam1234 »

boredtofears wrote: post #127
cm2012 wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's one thing to be upfront. "I love someone new, let's divorce / some other arrangement." There will be hurt feelings but that's life. The honesty will help everyone in the long run. It's entirely another thing to sneak around - to do something you promised not to do, but in secret, so you don't get caught. It is my observation and experience that the kind of person who breaks trust in secret is not someone I want…

If you admit to loving someone new you've very likely already cheated at the emotional level if not the physical. Where do you draw the line?

Unlike the other replies, I believe that people actually can control their emotions -- especially if they are expert meditators.

That said, I usually don't date expert meditators, so wouldn't expect my partner to have a perfect control over their emotions. But I would expect them to have sufficient control over their actions. So that is where I draw the line.

Re: Divorce does funny things

#359

Post by bradlys »

BirdieNZ wrote: post #355
bradlys wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try to trust me when I say this - when you’re looking at many years of not having to work and you don’t even have to foot the lawyer bill to make it happen… it’s not as difficult as you think. It’s not a picnic but it’s not purgatory either. If you were fortunate enough to marry a similarly earning woman then congratulations. Unfortunately - those are exceptional for this industry. At least where I am - it is rare to…

> Your marriage could end at any point. You just live naively thinking it won’t Oh, I'm quite aware that it could end (whether due to death or divorce). I choose not to spend my time dwelling on the possibility, because that would be like living in hopelessness. There are a lot of bad things that might happen to us in the future, and some are even likely, but living in constant dread for the future is joylessness.

I'm not saying I live in fear of it either. I'm saying I don't care to participate in marriage because it is currently an institution that has not allowed itself to be modified to fit couples as they see fit. It is a one-size option and it - unfortunately - does not work for people like myself.

If I was to marry - I'd have to marry someone with the same level of income, spending/saving habits, and so forth for the marriage to be "equal" in the eyes of the law. As it stands - I don't consider that as much of a factor for my relationships because I'm an extremely giving person. However, my willingness to give everything to someone ends when the relationship does. If I choose to not interact with this person anymore then why should I be in their debt until the end of time?

It's not worth it. It creates a perverse power incentive for people in the marriage as well. Again - maybe you're not in that situation but I was making $400K+ and they were making $0 for years. They had no intention of ever working because they knew I could pay for everything. It went from gratefulness in our first year to entitlement by the end of our relationship and had spread like a plague ruining everything. I cannot fathom how much they would feel entitled to if we had been legally married - even if they contributed literally nothing. And I'm dead serious - they didn't do housework or child raising or anything either - they did nothing and yet there are no absolutely no enforceable protections for people like myself... BESIDES not marrying - which is what I advocate for.

I advocate for love, support, giving, and so much but it needs to be on your terms. It cannot be on the terms of some archaic governmental, cultural, and religious institution.

Re: Divorce does funny things

#360

Post by _albk »

MisterTea wrote: post #223
throwaway_sjfgd wrote: post #197

I am going through it right now too. Very short background: * Wife abusive from the beginning * Sexless marriage as she refused * Beating herself up for years * She's not earning (highly qualified) * Did not take care of child or home either * Tried to frame me however I figured and escaped * Living separately now * She filed false and frivolous violence complaint against me * Not letting me meet my child * Court gra…

> Wife abusive from the beginning People who get into these relationships always paint themselves as victims when everyone around them knew it was a disaster from the beginning. I just don't understand how they get there unless they willingly ignore signs of bad behavior or they think they can fix or change people. That or they're just stupid. I have a coworker in a bad relationship that seems to be headed towards ma…

Hindsight. I couldn’t see it until the relationship was severed. I’m not stupid, but I tried to save it up until the final day while those around us were taking bets on when it would end.

19 years of life are… poof. I missed out on doing things I think I would have liked to because of “love”.

And I still care/worry for her.

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