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Ask HN: Tech-savvy parents, what are the gadget rules for your kids?

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Re: Ask HN: Tech-savvy parents, what are the gadget rules for your kids?

#11

Post by api »

d3nj4l wrote: post #9
api wrote: post #3

The only one we have so far is that we blocked YouTube at the router level. YouTube (and YouTube Kids etc.) is down-right creepy when kids get hold of it. The kids will watch things like Netflix or Amazon Prime for a bit, get bored, and do something else. They'll play stuff like Minecraft for a bit and move on too. But put them in front of YouTube and they will sit there all day watching banal, repetitive, shockingly…

That's super weird. Have you tried to figure out what the difference is? Netflix and the like also have a lot of the features that I can think would cause such a reaction: infinite playback without user input, very little friction from opening to playing something and so on. Is it the content? Or what it recommends? Might give a reason to why kids seem to be hooked to elsagate videos...

I can't quite figure it out, but I think the colors and flashiness is part of it. Combine that with the tightness and apparent effectiveness of the engagement-maximizing algorithm and how quickly it moves you along to the next thing and I think you have something.

The content the kids get hooked on is sometimes down-right weird. My older daughter got hooked on this Minecraft YouTuber called Preston who just yammers for hours at the speed of an old fashioned auctioneer. It's utterly obnoxious to grown ups but the kids will sit there until they're in a puddle of their own urine. A neighbor kid got hooked on weird "meme videos" full of pictures from horror games set to banal nursery rhyme style music. They got obsessed with characters from a game called "Five Nights at Freddie's" even though they've never played it. Some of these videos are 12 hours long and obviously assembled by bots.

It's fucking "kill it with fire" creepy. It's so extreme with kids if I didn't know such things were impossible I'd start wondering about 5G mind control conspiracy theories. (Alas, the link is WiFi not 5G...)

Other parents have told me the same thing. I've helped a few neighbors ban YouTube on their routers. I've read it on parenting forums too.

I've heard TikTok can be this way for teens but have no direct experience.

Re: Ask HN: Tech-savvy parents, what are the gadget rules for your kids?

#12

Post by option »

3 and 6 years olds. On iOS (iPad) screen time (45 mins weekdays, 1 hour on Saturday), content and contact filters are ON. I love iOS parental controls. All apps installed by me (Math tango, code sparks, khan academy etc.). Absolutely no YouTube or Netflix unless together with me.

Re: Ask HN: Tech-savvy parents, what are the gadget rules for your kids?

#13

Post by d3nj4l »

api wrote: post #11
d3nj4l wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's super weird. Have you tried to figure out what the difference is? Netflix and the like also have a lot of the features that I can think would cause such a reaction: infinite playback without user input, very little friction from opening to playing something and so on. Is it the content? Or what it recommends? Might give a reason to why kids seem to be hooked to elsagate videos...

I can't quite figure it out, but I think the colors and flashiness is part of it. Combine that with the tightness and apparent effectiveness of the engagement-maximizing algorithm and how quickly it moves you along to the next thing and I think you have something. The content the kids get hooked on is sometimes down-right weird. My older daughter got hooked on this Minecraft YouTuber called Preston who just yammers f…

I'm repeating myself, but that's so weird. From personal experience, I've only ever thought of the YouTube algorithm as crap. Every time I check YouTube everything there is just irrelevant to me, and the recommendations next to any video are just as random and pointless that I rarely watch more than one video at a time. It might help that I'm actively repelled by clickbait, and a lot of YouTube has (had to?) go down that hole.

Re: Ask HN: Tech-savvy parents, what are the gadget rules for your kids?

#14

Post by troyvit »

I have two daughters, 10 and 13 living with me and my partner 3 days per week and their mom 4 days per week.

In short I treat over-use of devices as a symptom and not a cause of social problems ... and they have their share of social problems but they're managing.

Their mom is more strict with phone time on them but they watch unlimited TV. I limit TV and let them have unlimited phone time. At this point their idea of social networking is trolling people in Among Us.

Their mom, my partner and I have helped them build a healthy skepticism for social networks. They basically think they're "stupid" so even though their friends have instagram, and I have instagram, they still think they're dumb and they don't mind that they aren't allowed a social network like that. We're lucky there.

The three of us (especially their mom I feel) have done a thorough job explaining the dangers of connecting with strangers on social networks and they just don't as far as I know. It doesn't hurt that they're fairly anti-social to begin with.

They are paranoid about passwords, the family has our own bitwarden server, and they understand why. Beyond that though they have no concept of internet privacy and don't care what data is being hoovered up by alphabet, apple, etc. I want to try to link privacy and security more closely together but so far I'm not doing great. They spend a lot of time with youtube recommendations and also a lot of time ironically listening to pop music? I don't get it but they love to blast the worst pop they can find and then make gagging noises. I have no idea what the algos are making of that.

They keep secrets from me on their phones. That worries me but my feeling is that if I respect their privacy and focus on building their self-respect then if they have a problem they'll come to me. They spill those secrets to me and my partner occasionally to get revenge on each other and the secrets are harmless. My oldest daughter screen-shotted her sister's browser tabs and made it her background. My kind of petty and I'm proud.

So thanks for this question, I've wanted to get this down in writing to see if it makes sense for ages. Still not sure it does but so far the kids are alright.

Re: Ask HN: Tech-savvy parents, what are the gadget rules for your kids?

#15

Post by les »

Seems like I'm a bit more "loose" with our 3yr old. 10 minutes of iPad every night before going upstairs and reading to her. We attended a seminar about kids and screentime, an interesting fact was that apparently ipad/tv or a book has the same effect, not focussing on further away things is bad for the eyes.

Re: Ask HN: Tech-savvy parents, what are the gadget rules for your kids?

#16

Post by zz865 »

troyvit wrote: post #14

I have two daughters, 10 and 13 living with me and my partner 3 days per week and their mom 4 days per week. In short I treat over-use of devices as a symptom and not a cause of social problems ... and they have their share of social problems but they're managing. Their mom is more strict with phone time on them but they watch unlimited TV. I limit TV and let them have unlimited phone time. At this point their idea o…

> Their mom is more strict with phone time on them but they watch unlimited TV. I limit TV and let them have unlimited phone time.

Lol me too.

Re: Ask HN: Tech-savvy parents, what are the gadget rules for your kids?

#17

Post by cecilpl2 »

api wrote: post #11
d3nj4l wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's super weird. Have you tried to figure out what the difference is? Netflix and the like also have a lot of the features that I can think would cause such a reaction: infinite playback without user input, very little friction from opening to playing something and so on. Is it the content? Or what it recommends? Might give a reason to why kids seem to be hooked to elsagate videos...

I can't quite figure it out, but I think the colors and flashiness is part of it. Combine that with the tightness and apparent effectiveness of the engagement-maximizing algorithm and how quickly it moves you along to the next thing and I think you have something. The content the kids get hooked on is sometimes down-right weird. My older daughter got hooked on this Minecraft YouTuber called Preston who just yammers f…

This has a name - Elsagate [0]. There's a subreddit [1] devoted to tracking it.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elsagate

[1] https://old.reddit.com/r/ElsaGate/

Re: Ask HN: Tech-savvy parents, what are the gadget rules for your kids?

#18

Post by bennyp101 »

4,5,15

15 year old does his own thing, not a lot can be done there, but he's not stupid with it. Mainly just playing xbox with his friends, watching other people play games on youtube.

Younger ones have a Fire tablet each, 1 hour a day limit (unless they ask for more) - mostly seems to be learning games/lego cartoons. Browser disabled, can only use stuff in their age range. They aren't allowed to watch youTube unless one of us is in the room with them (Too often it just changes to some random advert/show that is very different to what they were watching ...)

I have a separate Pi-Hole for the kids vlan which blocks gambling/porn/mining stuff as well as adverts.

Every now and then we all sit and play xbox/PS4 together - Disney games/(Train|Farm) simulators etc

Edit: The youngest also like to sit with me if I'm playing a game on my PC, and I let them use the mouse/keyboard to try and get them used to the control of it.

(I'm thinking of setting them up a Pi that is 'theirs' to get the mouse/keyboard control going)

Re: Ask HN: Tech-savvy parents, what are the gadget rules for your kids?

#19

Post by shubb »

ndnichols wrote: post #8

We have three kids, aged 6, 3, and 10 months. The six-year-old gets ~30 minutes of Switch play a week (mostly driving circles in Rocket League), and the whole family watches an episode of Lego Masters on Sunday. That's the only screen time they get. When our oldest was ~3, he had been potty trained for awhile. We were on vacation and he was on the iPad we had brought for the plane. He was so engrossed in the game tha…

Word of caution - my parents strictly controlled screen time until I was a young adult - at which point they just stopped. At the same time I moved to a room they couldn't supervise.

I lacked the self discipline tools to control my own bed times and screen time, and failed to manage either, impacting my grades.

That was an important lesson for sure, but I do think if we'd done something more phased earlier on, it would have been better. You can tell a 13 year old "You can go on the computer as much as you like on Thursday, but if you don't get your homework done and spend 3 hours doing non-screen things, you will not be allowed to next week". Not so much with an 18 year old.

Re: Ask HN: Tech-savvy parents, what are the gadget rules for your kids?

#20

Post by mabbo »

bennyp101 wrote: post #18

4,5,15 15 year old does his own thing, not a lot can be done there, but he's not stupid with it. Mainly just playing xbox with his friends, watching other people play games on youtube. Younger ones have a Fire tablet each, 1 hour a day limit (unless they ask for more) - mostly seems to be learning games/lego cartoons. Browser disabled, can only use stuff in their age range. They aren't allowed to watch youTube unless…

Any chance of you doing a write up somewhere of how you set this up, how it all works? This sounds fantastic.

I'm 3 months out from becoming a parent. This stuff isn't a big deal yet, but in 3 years or so I'm going to need it. I'd love to learn from you. I know what vlans and pi-holes are, but I've never set them up like that and I want to be able to.

And if there's me wanting it, I'll bet there's a lot more parents or future parents who might also want to know about it.

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