Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Icon Ambulance

plus.google.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 97 posts

Re: Icon Ambulance

#51

Post by RyanMcGreal »

comice wrote: post #45

I think most rational people would have said something like: "Steve, I agree that is an important detail but it does not warrant a phone call to me on Sunday morning. Send me an email. We'll speak tomorrow." The question is, why didn't people say things like that to Steve Jobs? Or do only the ones that prostrated themselves to him ever speak up? (or get the attention when they do?) I want some stories of people telli…

> I want some stories of people telling Jobs to piss off.

Well, the Apple board of directors told him to piss off in 1985.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/06/07/john-sculley-on-why...

Re: Icon Ambulance

#52

Post by Duff »

nhashem wrote: post #6

Because it's Steve Jobs, this is a great anecdote. I'm sure we'll hear dozens of them in the next couple days and weeks, all examples of Jobs' attention to detail and design resulting in superior products and software. Yet imagine your boss calling you on a Sunday and saying, "So I was reviewing the DBA's data model for the new product, and I really don't like how he's called the columns with customers identifiers 'c…

I've had bosses who were just lost in details and micromanaging. It's usually annoying and rarely adds anything to whatever you want to do.

But I've also worked for a couple of people who were simply masters of their craft who demanded excellence. One was a shop and drafting teacher. The other was a farmer. Both had the experience in their area to know what was "right" and was empowered to do things their way... But it was deeper than just that.

"Attention to detail" to achieve excellence is much different than micromanagement, which is typically an expression of a manager's personal insecurity.

Re: Icon Ambulance

#53

Post by [deleted] »

comice wrote: post #45

I think most rational people would have said something like: "Steve, I agree that is an important detail but it does not warrant a phone call to me on Sunday morning. Send me an email. We'll speak tomorrow." The question is, why didn't people say things like that to Steve Jobs? Or do only the ones that prostrated themselves to him ever speak up? (or get the attention when they do?) I want some stories of people telli…

[deleted]

Re: Icon Ambulance

#54

Post by hootmon »

All this fanboy crap makes me puke, for the worlds greatest snake oil salesman, who made a career out of stealing the work of others and claiming his precious poser company created it.

Re: Icon Ambulance

#55

Post by sachinag »

tlrobinson wrote: post #25
cmelbye wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think attention to detail in terms of a column name is different than attention to visual design and look and feel of a product.

Steve Jobs doesn't think so. Have you seen the insides of Apple products? They're as beautiful as the outsides of competitors' products.

This is another one of the ways in which Apple is very much like Nintendo. (Others include very strong leadership; doing things their own way, standards be damned; and cultivating the brand above all else.) The inside of the N64, in particular, was astonishing.

Re: Icon Ambulance

#57

Post by [deleted] »

aneth wrote: post #44

Assuming the anecdote is accurate, my guess is this was Steve's subtle way of nudging Vic to be more attentive to details. I don't think Steve would call anyone at anytime making a fuss over such a small thing - he would never get any work done. Call someone who's work is starting to slip once on a Sunday to complain about some minutiae, and you are letting them know that you are watching - even if you aren't really…

[deleted]

Re: Icon Ambulance

#58

Post by toddmorey »

staunch wrote: post #18
nhashem wrote: post #6

Because it's Steve Jobs, this is a great anecdote. I'm sure we'll hear dozens of them in the next couple days and weeks, all examples of Jobs' attention to detail and design resulting in superior products and software. Yet imagine your boss calling you on a Sunday and saying, "So I was reviewing the DBA's data model for the new product, and I really don't like how he's called the columns with customers identifiers 'c…

I think the difference is that he earns the right to make a fuss over stuff like that by setting the standard of excellence in his own work and consistently requiring it of everyone around him. Whereas most other bosses that might make a similar request would seem capricious for nitpicking over one issue while ignoring a bunch of (probably more important) issues.

That's a really good point. I'd also argue that you have to be right. His magic is high standards paired with amazing insight for what to build and how to motivate people. The most dangerous managers have strong convictions, micromanaging tendencies, but the wrong vision and focus. You can't bully other people into your perfectionism. You have to inspire them.

Re: Icon Ambulance

#59

Post by jprobert »

nhashem wrote: post #6

Because it's Steve Jobs, this is a great anecdote. I'm sure we'll hear dozens of them in the next couple days and weeks, all examples of Jobs' attention to detail and design resulting in superior products and software. Yet imagine your boss calling you on a Sunday and saying, "So I was reviewing the DBA's data model for the new product, and I really don't like how he's called the columns with customers identifiers 'c…

The difference between your example and the Steve Jobs anecdote is that one is backend and the other is customer facing. Getting all of the details right for the customer is paramount for him but I doubt he would fret over the minute details on the backend.

Re: Icon Ambulance

#60

Post by grammaton »

sskates wrote: post #31
nhashem wrote: post #6

Because it's Steve Jobs, this is a great anecdote. I'm sure we'll hear dozens of them in the next couple days and weeks, all examples of Jobs' attention to detail and design resulting in superior products and software. Yet imagine your boss calling you on a Sunday and saying, "So I was reviewing the DBA's data model for the new product, and I really don't like how he's called the columns with customers identifiers 'c…

Jobs WAS perceived as absolutely absurd during his first stint at Apple. It's a big part of why the board kicked him out in 1985. If he didn't have a track record of success on the iPod, iPhone, and iPad, his demanding and aggressive personality wouldn't go over as well. Most people with his type of personality come off as extremely abrasive more than they come off as "genius".

Pull this sort of thing when you're an average executive or middle management, and you're an abrasive, demanding idiot. Pull it when you have a few billion in the bank, and you're a "visionary."
Post reply on HN