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I hate password rules

schneier.com

301–310 of 447 posts

Re: I hate password rules

#301
post #242

A few years back, not too long ago, I started working on a new contract assignment at a medium size aerospace manufacturer. I show up and check in with IT department. The system administrator shows me to my desk, and hands me a post it note with my password. Well pass phrase is more like it. It was something like “sliding down the tall building”. I was quite impressed that they encouraged the use of long pass phrases…

[deleted]

Re: I hate password rules

#302
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do this on quite a few sites. Most of the easy ones have an easy to find onpaste event wired in the DOM and it's a simple delete. I feel like there are so few legitimate uses of onpaste and the browser should have an easy override that if I ctrl+v three times in quick succession or something like that it ignores or disables onpaste events. Alternatively, my password manager does have a decent "autotype" tool when a…

I find it easier just to select the DOM element for the field and do $0.value = "asd"; instead of finding the onpaste event.

When the onpaste is easy to spot it's one key (Delete) after selecting that attribute or event versus a minimum of around 14 give or take keys depending on how good your console autocompletion is. When it is not easy to find, yeah I next try just setting the DOM value.

Re: I hate password rules

#303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll let you explain that to my 90 year old grandma. (not that a password manager is really any better in this case)

Would it be that difficult? Leave a small one connected to her computer (I assume she always uses the same one). The web browser prompts "Now touch your security key", and the light is flashing. It's also a good defence againt phishing, as the key won't authenticate against a phishing site.

You haven't met her, she's an utterly horrid racist bigot terrible human. I stopped talking to her years ago. Hence why I wouldn't wish anyone to ever have to explain a hardware token to her.

Re: I hate password rules

#304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious how you get your password from there and into a form on a website.

With secure inter-vm copy-pasting: https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/how-to-copy-and-paste-text/

Impressive level of paranoia. That said, I'd declare it your 'password manager'.

Re: I hate password rules

#305
post #291

The worst is when some forms set rules but prevent the user from pasting a string into the duplicate field for verification. If this is meant to prevent user error in case of a typo in the first field, then it also thwarts many of us using password managers. Somehow my browser can auto-generate and enter a password, but I can’t. That’s a work-around, but it’s irksome anyway. On another note, a more constructive metri…

English has about 1 bit per character of entropy so if you type a normal expression it is going to give you ~60 bits of entropy. Random words will give you something like 2-3 bits per character so ~120-180 bits for a 60 character string. Random alphanumeric strings have about 5.95 bits of entropy so you get 178 bits from 30 of them.

So your comparison is somewhat right but only with an annoying definition of haiku and dictionary of words. However, a less good scheme should still be fine

Re: I hate password rules

#306
post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How to practically check for common passwords? Ideal would be to have like the most common 1/1000th of the hibp so that it's not too big for deployment in some clever structure (compressed trie? bloom filter?). I don't trust 3rd party services.

Have you heard about https://haveibeenpwned.com/Passwords ?

Sorry I reread and you said hibp so you know! Why not use the entire set?

Re: I hate password rules

#307
post #256
post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Treating security questions like passwords and saving them in your password manager is correct, but make sure that your fake answers aren't autogenerated nonsense like ":s^Twd.J;3hzg=Q~". Many password reset flows involve communicating a security question over the phone, and it's easy enough for an attacker to guess "oh, it's just a bunch of random characters lol" and for the phone rep to just laugh and shrug their s…

Maybe “:s^Twd.J;3hzg=Q~ if I don’t spell it, it’s not me”?

Will probably work about as well as that time when I was young and decided to spend about a week signing all receipts with a signature that looks nothing like my usual one, just to see if it would ever be challenged.

Many people are, contrary to all pretense, mostly paid to not give any actual fucks.

Re: I hate password rules

#308
I hate those requirements, but if at least they were enumerated in a programmatic manner, for example through a RegEx or password field parameters then a password manager could read those and offer a generated password that fits those requirements.

Re: I hate password rules

#309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They should at least make their sign-up and login password fields have the same max length attributes...

It's even worse than that the BMC is a preconfigured part of the server not something you go to a sign up page for. It's literally the _change password functionality_ that does not warn/error on the password being too long!

I had seen the same thing on a (much older) switch, which is the only reason I thought to try truncating my password. Worked after dropping only one character, I was sort of expecting it to be 16 or maybe even 8.

Re: I hate password rules

#310

My frustration isn't just the sites that make the password rules clear after I submit the form. The worst sites are the ones that truncate my generated password to fit their maximum password length and then don't tell me (which seems to happen in more places than it should).

Can I ask what length your passwords are (roughly)? I don't understand the motivation for anything long in the context of randomly generated passwords for websites. 8-10 characters should be plenty. (This isn't to excuse silent truncation.)

I use a password manager and randomly generated ones for most everything, but I use diceware pass phrases I memorized for specific cases so that in an emergency, e.g. when traveling I can get access to some things even without any of my devices.
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