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Decentralized Woo Hoo

stephendiehl.com

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Re: Decentralized Woo Hoo

#261

Post by serverholic »

cableshaft wrote: post #243
zkldi wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ethereum has been moving to proof of stake for the past 4 years. Everytime these threads come up people bring up that ETH is *just about* to move to PoS, but it never happens.

You're presumably in software, you should know major software upgrades take years and always longer than expected. Doubly so when it's already being used for millions of transactions daily. Triply so when you're altering the fundamental nature of the underlying protocol. They have already released the first of three phases. It's live now. I currently have some ETH on the new Proof of Stake chain. Second phase (where…

Game developers: "We need to push back the release date"

Gamers: "No problem. Take the time you need to make it good."

Crypto developers (who are responsible for billions of dollars): "We need to push back the release date"

Techies: "How dare you. I'm going to imply you're incompetent even though I don't follow the development process at all."

Re: Decentralized Woo Hoo

#262

Post by jrm4 »

xorp wrote: post #68
jrm4 wrote: post #25

Criticisms here are correct: Look, decentralized here doesn't mean "decentralized" in the slightest. I think for - not just the people he's critcizing, but ALSO FOR HIM, "decentralized" really means "centralized differently." True "decentralization" means letting go of (at least some) exclusivity and ownership; and the current flavor of the crypto craze can't even conceive of it. Ironic, since a lot of it is built on…

> True "decentralization" means letting go of (at least some) exclusivity and ownership; and the current flavor of the crypto craze can't even conceive of it. "True" decentralization is a voluntary framework where both exclusivity and ownership can coexist with other (less capitalist) ideologies. What I find interesting is that there is an emerging global sandbox for people to experiment with novel technologies and t…

I agree, though I think the current one or ones being hyped now is far less interesting that the projects that have already done much of the same pre-Crypto. They ALL seem like "stuff we've done before but lets add on more payments."

See e.g. Deviant Art, Wikipedia, Roblox, Minecraft, Second Life, the list goes on.

Re: Decentralized Woo Hoo

#263

Post by jimkleiber »

shoto_io wrote: post #118
cslarson wrote: post #103

> Yet if we value these assets in terms of traditional valuation models we find they should be worth absolutely nothing. This is the core tenet that these skeptics get lost with - the premise that there is no real central value to blockchain technology. It is a lost and shallow view made by people who have chosen not to engage or understand what they espouse on. Maybe this person just has too much to lose from change…

I've been a huge skeptic myself until a friend almost forced me into going down the rabbit hole. I have since been wondering why we tech people are so unbelievably critical. "There is no use-case." and "It's a technology looking for a problem" are common phrases. I have no answer. Just a thought: for someone living in the 90s, wouldn't something like Facebook have been also very difficult to conceive? "What's the val…

I think for me the problem is splitting people into binary camps of skeptic or supporter. Personally, I have my strongest reactions of skepticism when people seem to declare blockchains as a god, an inevitable coming of blissful revolution. I have a similar, altho less extreme reaction, when people tell me there is absolutely no value or future and that the whole space is pure bs and fraud.

I wish we didn't see the world as so us/them, for/against, good/bad. I think I mostly fight against those perspectives and this space seems to have a lot of 100% yes and 100% no attitudes.

Re: Decentralized Woo Hoo

#264

Post by labster »

koonsolo wrote: post #248
labster wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dollars do have inherent value, because I need them to keep the government from throwing me in prison for tax evasion. That is a very useful property.

This is such a stupid argument that keeps being repeated on HN. People are not obliged to be paid in dollars. This means people could decide to be paid exclusively in some cryptocurrency. So government collects taxes in dollars... what are they going to buy with that?

If the argument keeps being repeated it must have inherent value.

Re: Decentralized Woo Hoo

#265

Post by kranke155 »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #228
kranke155 wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HN has decided to completely fail at crypto collectively. They are missing out on the entirety of the Next Big Thing .

If it is your intention to convince people on HN that you're not running a scam, refraining from FOMO-based tactics would be a good start.

I wasn’t using FOMO at all, just saying that when you get deep into decentralised applications, it’s hard to understand why folks don’t see the huge opportunity. I’m also “not running” crypto since that’s impossible ?

Re: Decentralized Woo Hoo

#266

Post by billjings »

cslarson wrote: post #146
billjings wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is the core tenet that these skeptics get lost with - the premise that there is no real central value to blockchain technology. It is a lost and shallow view made by people who have chosen not to engage or understand what they espouse on. Maybe this person just has too much to lose from change to the status quo, or they choose not to educate themselves (try it) - neither is really valid response if you want to…

you are stuck on NFTs and Bitcoin then. many would agree that these don't hold fundamental value and worth debate. but does usdc on Ethereum have value - probably if you pay taxes. does a token representing a share of a house, or a leverage protocol that's making bank? the token that makes that all possible (ETH), does it now have value because it enables things of value? yes! anyone can publish a website or a blog p…

USDC only has value because it's pegged to a non crypto asset. Is there a crypto asset with its own clear valuation?

And Eth - it is easy to say that it should have value. But what value should it have? What's my investment model for eth? As I said in my original comment, the value of the whole Ethereum system doesn't necessarily make Eth valuable. Beachfront property is extremely valuable, but that doesn't make sand a good investment.

Re: Decentralized Woo Hoo

#267

Post by catskul2 »

martin_drapeau wrote: post #97

History replays itself every new invention or enlightment humans have. Over the past centuries many have been persecuted for studying chemistry, astronomy, physics and even biology. Think of Galileo who was persecuted for advaing the theory that the Earth was round. Crypto embodies a new paradigm whereby rules can be programmed and enforced by computers. Instead of relying on centralized human authorities to measure,…

> Think of Galileo who was persecuted for advaing the theory that the Earth was round.

FYI, Galileo showed that Earth and the other planets go around the sun. That the earth was round was already known.

Re: Decentralized Woo Hoo

#268

Post by GoblinSlayer »

labster wrote: post #210
jstanley wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you trust that the country issuing that fiat doesn't default Doesn't default on what ? A dollar isn't a claim on a percentage of the productive output of the USA, it's just a dollar. If dollars aren't worth anything, it's not worth anything.

Dollars do have inherent value, because I need them to keep the government from throwing me in prison for tax evasion. That is a very useful property.

That's not inherent value, that's a social contract.

Re: Decentralized Woo Hoo

#269

Post by throwawaygh »

jollybean wrote: post #242
throwawaygh wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> actually no reason you couldn't have the reimbursement instantly Out in the Real Economy there's a thing called cash flow. You can't pay your employees before your customers pay you. > FYI there's no reason for 'all your transactions to be on the blockchain' - that's just the way it works today but that can change. You're right. There's no reason.

Regular expenses are generally not burdened by cash flow. You get your regular expenses at the 'end of the month' as a matter of process, not because the company is waiting for customers to pay for stuff, so they can pay you. As an employee, you're not there to provide working capital for your company, so if you're buying something really that the company should be paying for, they should be able to pay for it immedi…

> Regular expenses are generally not burdened by cash flow. You get your regular expenses at the 'end of the month' as a matter of process, not because the company is waiting for customers to pay for stuff, so they can pay you.

Again, this may be true in Corporate America, but it's far less true in small businesses (which are a huge fraction of any economy).

> As an employee, you're not there to provide working capital for your company

No, that's the role of my credit card company (and what's more, they pay me for the pleasure & my only real expense is divulging my employer's spend).

Re: Decentralized Woo Hoo

#270

Post by jw1224 »

miracle2k wrote: post #211
addcninblue wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, not quite. It has inherent value since fiat is guaranteed to be backed by the full faith and credit of the backing nation. That is, by holding fiat, you trust that the country issuing that fiat doesn't default (and will hence guarantee that value). I don't see a similar parallel with crypto, though I'd love to be corrected.

Since I can't exchange a dollar for a piece of faith and credit, it's not really backed in the traditional sense of being a backed asset. Neither is it backed by the US military or the ability to pay taxes. The fact that the dollar is in widespread use in a country that has a track record of stability, a well-managed economy, trusted institutions and a strong military all mean that if you want to put your faith into…

Not sure why you’re getting downvoted. This is an accurate and realistic observation.
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