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I hate password rules

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161–170 of 447 posts

Re: I hate password rules

#161

I hate MFA. I get the "need", but it's a) generally shittily implemented, and c) frequently manipulated/enforced not for the right reasons (notably to force you to surrender your phone number)

I actually kind of like TOTP, since I can choose the implementation I want to use, and make backups, and so on. I loathe having to use any kind of bespoke MFA app, and I just resent the use of SMS for MFA.

Add to that, that SMS 2FA is becoming rapidly more insecure these days.

Re: I hate password rules

#162

NIST best practice recommendations state: * Require more than 8 characters * Don't require special characters * Don't force the user to reset their password * Do check for compromised passwords * Require MFA * ... All very sensible. https://auth0.com/blog/dont-pass-on-the-new-nist-password-gu...

> * Require MFA Using some kind of OTP authenticator app or device and __NOT__ SMS!

For average person there’s also the problem of recovering access in case the phone with OTP app is lost.

Every service of course has the option to print backup keys. Maintaining those (in secure offsite location) over years takes some effort.

Re: I hate password rules

#164
A few weeks ago I signed up for a local credit union and received a membership packet in my email including a reminder of what my password is. I called them to tell them about this security flaw and received a single dollar as a bug bounty, but they still haven't changed it.

Re: I hate password rules

#165
post #135

In another blog post, linked from this one, Bruce says that the XKCD scheme of stringing together a series of words is no longer safe: > Modern password crackers combine different words from their dictionaries. This is why the oft-cited XKCD scheme for generating passwords — string together individual words like “correcthorsebatterystaple” — is no longer good advice. The password crackers are on to this trick. Is tha…

Yes, more words is ideal. The ideal authentication scheme is that the attacker knows absolutely the system you use but it is still secure within realistic time constraints. So using randomly generated words from a sufficiently long list (such as this one https://www.eff.org/files/2016/07/18/eff_large_wordlist.txt ) and as long as the hashing algorithm is sufficiently complex, then you are mathematically protected with a minimum number of words.

For example using a 6 word pass phrase from the above 10000 word list would on average require 5e23 attempts to correctly guess it. For credential stuffing this is absolutely impractical. For cracking a leaked password hash we can figure out how secure it is.

We assume that the service properly salts the passwords, so a rainbow table can't be used. If salted bcrypt hashes are used, a benchmarked 4-gpu rig did ~160 hashes/s, so even assuming a nation-state with 1E9 times as much computing power, we get 1.6e11 hashes/s, so this gives us on average 3.1e12 seconds to crack, which is about 100,000 years. Which means that no-one (pre-quantum) can crack that password.

Re: I hate password rules

#166

NIST best practice recommendations state: * Require more than 8 characters * Don't require special characters * Don't force the user to reset their password * Do check for compromised passwords * Require MFA * ... All very sensible. https://auth0.com/blog/dont-pass-on-the-new-nist-password-gu...

Disclosure: I am the cofounder https://www.clerk.dev Here's the direct link to NIST 800-63B - it's really a fantastic document with sensible recommendations on every authentication method: https://pages.nist.gov/800-63-3/sp800-63b.html The tedious part of NIST's password requirements is "Do check for compromised passwords" HaveIBeenPwned exists, but most open source tools don't leverage it and this requirement goes o…

The important part is that the NIST password advice is meant to be read as a whole. Often I see people quote snippets out of the advice, but unless you read and understand the whole document, you run the risk of reducing your security posture.

Re: I hate password rules

#167

NIST best practice recommendations state: * Require more than 8 characters * Don't require special characters * Don't force the user to reset their password * Do check for compromised passwords * Require MFA * ... All very sensible. https://auth0.com/blog/dont-pass-on-the-new-nist-password-gu...

I have multiple financial accounts that still insist on using public-knowledge security questions (which of course I've given fake answers saved in my password manager) instead of just letting me set up proper 2FA. It's infuriating.

Yeah, my bank does that too. Asks for my birthday for "security" reasons. They also kill their website's usability by forbidding physical keyboards and forcing users to use a virtual keyboard with randomized key layouts in order to type passwords in a feeble attempt to defeat keyloggers. Some banks even make it extra annoying by generating ambiguous keys like "1 or 7" or "2 or 3".

The saddest thing is banks can't be too secure. If they were, then they would be too hard for normal people to use and they would get locked out of their funds.

Re: I hate password rules

#168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, what? That never happened to me. How do you go and find out your password then? Trial and error?

They might just truncate the password during login as well. I was able to login to my online banking using only the first five digits of my password not more than 3 years ago.. They fixed it in the meantime but I'm still worried.

You should still be worried, since any bank storing an unhashed password clearly has security fail.

Re: I hate password rules

#169

> I Hate Password Rules I hate passwords altogether. In this day and age, nearly all instances of password usage can be replaced by public key cryptography for a vastly improved user experience. And, of course, for a net gain in security.

Do you have any examples of this in the wild?

Re: I hate password rules

#170
post #137

I’d really love the W3C to come out with some elements that provide: 1) Communication of complexity requirements 2) Explicit password manager fill targets 3) An endpoint for a password manager to rotate passwords automatically. (and the validity period) All of these would be backwards compatible with grandmas that write passwords on post-its and mouldering IT policies that snub NIST recommendations. Sure, webauthn is…

This is something that folks are working on via the `passwordrules` attribute https://github.com/whatwg/html/issues/3518

With that and a well-known endpoint for changing passwords (not quite the same thing as what you’re describing; https://w3c.github.io/webappsec-change-password-url/) we are moving in that direction.

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