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I hate password rules

schneier.com

51–60 of 447 posts

Re: I hate password rules

#52

My frustration isn't just the sites that make the password rules clear after I submit the form. The worst sites are the ones that truncate my generated password to fit their maximum password length and then don't tell me (which seems to happen in more places than it should).

The worst sites are the ones that truncate my generated password to fit their maximum password length and then don't tell me Or worse, they truncate your password after you've already used it for years and years. I had a 30-character password with Bank of America. Somewhere along the line, it changed its password requirements to only allow a maximum of 20 or 25 characters (I forget), which automatically invalidated m…

So, for a bank the maximum is to allow NSA to crack it if they wish, right?

Re: I hate password rules

#53
post #30

There does need to be some rules or else people would set their password to be blank or a few characters. I would be happy with consistent password rules. 1. No password that was included in a breach a la the “haveibeenpwned” hash check system[0]. 2. No password reuse. 3. A Minimum length. Something like 14-20 characters. And no maximum (or at least something set to at least 127 characters as the max allowed). 4. Res…

This is very close to part of current NIST* / NCSC guidelines. I assume you mean no frequent /forced/ reset?

* https://pages.nist.gov/800-63-3/sp800-63b.html#memsecret

Re: I hate password rules

#54

My frustration isn't just the sites that make the password rules clear after I submit the form. The worst sites are the ones that truncate my generated password to fit their maximum password length and then don't tell me (which seems to happen in more places than it should).

And then their sign-in page doesn't truncate it and it just fails to login... Absolutely love it! One of my favorites was Nintendo's user account. The web allows decent passwords when created, but then the actual game console only has room for inputting 15 characters or so for the password :@

I've even seen it backwards (I assume) where creating the account with the longer password worked but then I couldn't sign in with it or any prefix of it.

Re: I hate password rules

#55
post #48
post #30

There does need to be some rules or else people would set their password to be blank or a few characters. I would be happy with consistent password rules. 1. No password that was included in a breach a la the “haveibeenpwned” hash check system[0]. 2. No password reuse. 3. A Minimum length. Something like 14-20 characters. And no maximum (or at least something set to at least 127 characters as the max allowed). 4. Res…

> 4. Reset no more than once a year. That would make a lot of people's life terrible. I reset my passwords very frequently (almost every time I log out of a website)

I think they're implying the site doesn't force you to reset your password more than once a year.

Re: I hate password rules

#56
post #48
post #30

There does need to be some rules or else people would set their password to be blank or a few characters. I would be happy with consistent password rules. 1. No password that was included in a breach a la the “haveibeenpwned” hash check system[0]. 2. No password reuse. 3. A Minimum length. Something like 14-20 characters. And no maximum (or at least something set to at least 127 characters as the max allowed). 4. Res…

> 4. Reset no more than once a year. That would make a lot of people's life terrible. I reset my passwords very frequently (almost every time I log out of a website)

I mean do not require passwords to be reset every 30,60,90 days etc. Ideally you would only force a password reset if they fell for a phishing attack or there was a breach of the hashed password database/auth system.

Re: I hate password rules

#57

Due to the nature of my job and the age of some of my coworkers, I am sometimes casually given passwords on a piece of paper. Out of a sample size of conservatively 20, I have never even once (!) seen a special character other than !. It just doesn't happen. Password rules and a requirement to change your password every X months are pure security mirage and just create frustration in people who often struggle to gene…

Frequent password rotation causes increases of passwords on post-its stuck to the monitor.

In most cases I would take a strong password stuck to the monitor than a dictionary password on an internet exposed system.

But yeah, frequent password rotation is still bad.

Re: I hate password rules

#58
post #30

There does need to be some rules or else people would set their password to be blank or a few characters. I would be happy with consistent password rules. 1. No password that was included in a breach a la the “haveibeenpwned” hash check system[0]. 2. No password reuse. 3. A Minimum length. Something like 14-20 characters. And no maximum (or at least something set to at least 127 characters as the max allowed). 4. Res…

Max password lengths make no sense to me. > just long well randomized passwords, or more aptly, passphrases. Interesting idea. I could imagine a new password prompt with an algorithm to reject passwords that were not random enough. How infuriating would that be? What would the hint message look like: "your password must contain a statistically random arrangement of characters"

Using a password manager password generation tool or a diceware word list would be sufficiently random in my eyes but I get what you mean.

Re: I hate password rules

#59
post #30

There does need to be some rules or else people would set their password to be blank or a few characters. I would be happy with consistent password rules. 1. No password that was included in a breach a la the “haveibeenpwned” hash check system[0]. 2. No password reuse. 3. A Minimum length. Something like 14-20 characters. And no maximum (or at least something set to at least 127 characters as the max allowed). 4. Res…

Just use zxcvbn

Never heard of this before. Thanks for sharing.

Re: I hate password rules

#60
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, what? That never happened to me. How do you go and find out your password then? Trial and error?

I once had a bank that used substr(tolower(input_password), 0, 8) as the actual password.

Heh. Late 1990's, I was an admin on a >1,000 user system - which was rooted because it had that feature, and another admin figured that 'meatball2&balloons' was a secure-enough password.
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