Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Toyota Forms ‘Team Japan’ to Help Keep Combustion Engine Alive

insideevs.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 42 posts

Re: Toyota Forms ‘Team Japan’ to Help Keep Combustion Engine Alive

#31

Post by CountDrewku »

culopatin wrote: post #25
CountDrewku wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It works. Show me an EV truck that comes anywhere close to what a Tacoma, Tundra or 4runner can do. Maybe they'll get there but there's gonna need to be some massive advances in batteries to be able to go off-road and pull loads like any of those current trucks can.

I see them going to the store and back 99% of the time so a Leaf would do probably.

That's not your decision to make. Maybe they only go out once a year and actually tow or go off road. It doesn't matter. If I'm going to spend $40k on a vehicle I get what I want. What I and a lot of people want is a vehicle that can do more than grocery store trips in some big urban center.

If you're talking about a secondary vehicle I'm all in but a lot of people aren't able to afford a $40k+ secondary EV.

Re: Toyota Forms ‘Team Japan’ to Help Keep Combustion Engine Alive

#32

Post by HeyLaughingBoy »

anakaine wrote: post #24
chrisseaton wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wonder how smooth the electric motor would be at that speed without additional gearing. Have you seen the Bollinger trials? https://youtu.be/W7TK6WhU_l4?t=379 Militaries are also looking very keenly towards EV because it lets you crawl silently over ground, where in a diesel you need to rev it up and get some momentum going. > Anyway, there's off road and there's off road. Saying as someone who professionally ope…

As someone who was a professionally employed explorer for 10 years until a couple of years back, who drove very capable off road vehicles then and now, I cannot wait for a little bit of maturity in that market. Id love to be able to roll through some of those areas without having to roar a diesel. A motor on each wheel means no lockers. I'm mainly just concerned about undercarriage submersion at this point - I can pu…

> concerned about undercarriage submersion

Portal axles, baby :-)

Re: Toyota Forms ‘Team Japan’ to Help Keep Combustion Engine Alive

#33

Post by chrisseaton »

CountDrewku wrote: post #27
chrisseaton wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Show me an EV truck that comes anywhere close to what a Tacoma, Tundra or 4runner can do. Weird examples - isn't EV actually uniquely well-suited to off-road and towing? Maximum torque at zero-revs? I can't wait to swap my Defender for a full electric variant when Land Rover manage to ship it - partly for the better capability.

No it's not uniquely suited because the battery life is abysmal. The new Ford Lightning can only make it like 100 miles while towing before it needs to be recharged. Multiple tests with Teslas are the same. When they're loaded down their range is very bad.

There's pluses and minus. For actual off-road capability it's mostly plus. If you're driving long-distance on a highway then yeah it's a minus... but that's not what trucks are for.

Re: Toyota Forms ‘Team Japan’ to Help Keep Combustion Engine Alive

#34

Post by CountDrewku »

chrisseaton wrote: post #33
CountDrewku wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it's not uniquely suited because the battery life is abysmal. The new Ford Lightning can only make it like 100 miles while towing before it needs to be recharged. Multiple tests with Teslas are the same. When they're loaded down their range is very bad.

There's pluses and minus. For actual off-road capability it's mostly plus. If you're driving long-distance on a highway then yeah it's a minus... but that's not what trucks are for.

How are they a plus for off-road? No offense but I don't think you understand what makes a good off-road vehicle.

Trucks are absolutely used for long distance. Probably more so since they're the top choice for towing recreational vehicles cross country.

Re: Toyota Forms ‘Team Japan’ to Help Keep Combustion Engine Alive

#35

Post by chrisseaton »

CountDrewku wrote: post #34
chrisseaton wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's pluses and minus. For actual off-road capability it's mostly plus. If you're driving long-distance on a highway then yeah it's a minus... but that's not what trucks are for.

How are they a plus for off-road? No offense but I don't think you understand what makes a good off-road vehicle. Trucks are absolutely used for long distance. Probably more so since they're the top choice for towing recreational vehicles cross country.

> How are they a plus for off-road?

Huge torque. Quiet operation. Independent and precise wheel control. Don't need to rev them up to get up a slope.

> No offense but I don't think you understand what makes a good off-road vehicle.

I'm a serving cavalry officer. I do this professionally. What's your qualification?

Re: Toyota Forms ‘Team Japan’ to Help Keep Combustion Engine Alive

#36

Post by CountDrewku »

chrisseaton wrote: post #35
CountDrewku wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are they a plus for off-road? No offense but I don't think you understand what makes a good off-road vehicle. Trucks are absolutely used for long distance. Probably more so since they're the top choice for towing recreational vehicles cross country.

> How are they a plus for off-road? Huge torque. Quiet operation. Independent and precise wheel control. Don't need to rev them up to get up a slope. > No offense but I don't think you understand what makes a good off-road vehicle. I'm a serving cavalry officer. I do this professionally. What's your qualification?

None of that matters if you don't have power.

Re: Toyota Forms ‘Team Japan’ to Help Keep Combustion Engine Alive

#37

Post by pertymcpert »

CountDrewku wrote: post #36
chrisseaton wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How are they a plus for off-road? Huge torque. Quiet operation. Independent and precise wheel control. Don't need to rev them up to get up a slope. > No offense but I don't think you understand what makes a good off-road vehicle. I'm a serving cavalry officer. I do this professionally. What's your qualification?

None of that matters if you don't have power.

What a cop-out. You were beaten and you know it.

Re: Toyota Forms ‘Team Japan’ to Help Keep Combustion Engine Alive

#38

Post by Hypx_ »

genousti wrote: post #20
meepmorp wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They bet on hydrogen vs electric cars, and that didn't pay off. They're already good at making ICE vehicles, so rather make up for a huge amount of lost time and effort, it's a bid to keep the current business going.

Lets see in 10 years. Id bet hydrogen is one fundamental discovery away from winning

Hydrogen has already found those fundamental discoveries, and much of it is the rapid reduction in green hydrogen cost. It's really a matter of time before economics shifts the entire industry towards hydrogen over resource-intensive batteries.

Re: Toyota Forms ‘Team Japan’ to Help Keep Combustion Engine Alive

#39

Post by Hypx_ »

theluketaylor wrote: post #30
genousti wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lets see in 10 years. Id bet hydrogen is one fundamental discovery away from winning

The overall efficiency of using electricity to create H2, ship it somewhere, then convert it back into electricity with a fuel cell will never make sense for passenger vehicles. I'm sure we'll find new catalysts and methods to improve electrolysis, but there is a hard upper limit on how good it can get. We're not going to cut the energy requirements in half. Battery prices have cratered over the last decade and conti…

There is no hard limit except 100% efficiency (sorta*). As fuel cells are a type of battery they can eventually match li-ion batteries on efficiency. Combined with their ability to capture curtail power on a very large scale and the economics of hydrogen could easily surpass that of the EV.

* There is a soft limit at 85%, but that is mainly due to the need to turn liquid water into steam over the entire process. This can be ignored if electrolysis is done on steam instead of liquid water. Also, 85% is close enough to li-ion batteries that very few people will care about it.

Re: Toyota Forms ‘Team Japan’ to Help Keep Combustion Engine Alive

#40

Post by dang »

Hypx_ wrote: post #39
theluketaylor wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The overall efficiency of using electricity to create H2, ship it somewhere, then convert it back into electricity with a fuel cell will never make sense for passenger vehicles. I'm sure we'll find new catalysts and methods to improve electrolysis, but there is a hard upper limit on how good it can get. We're not going to cut the energy requirements in half. Battery prices have cratered over the last decade and conti…

There is no hard limit except 100% efficiency (sorta*). As fuel cells are a type of battery they can eventually match li-ion batteries on efficiency. Combined with their ability to capture curtail power on a very large scale and the economics of hydrogen could easily surpass that of the EV. * There is a soft limit at 85%, but that is mainly due to the need to turn liquid water into steam over the entire process. This…

It looks like you've created this account to argue only about one thing on HN. Agenda-driven accounts and single-purpose accounts are not allowed here, regardless of the agenda/purpose, because it's not in keeping with the values of this site—i.e. intellectual curiosity doesn't work that way. So would you please stop?

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Post reply on HN