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Icon Ambulance

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Re: Icon Ambulance

#21
post #3
post #2

This doesn't ring true to me.

This is a first hand account. Are you calling Vic a liar? :-)

Wouldn't be surprising if joshu knew him...and it certainly wouldn't be the first time someone exaggerated an anecdote about an interaction with a famous person.

Re: Icon Ambulance

#22
post #6

Because it's Steve Jobs, this is a great anecdote. I'm sure we'll hear dozens of them in the next couple days and weeks, all examples of Jobs' attention to detail and design resulting in superior products and software. Yet imagine your boss calling you on a Sunday and saying, "So I was reviewing the DBA's data model for the new product, and I really don't like how he's called the columns with customers identifiers 'c…

Your example doesn't compare to Vic's post in the same way you intend to. Vic clearly states that

  But in the end, when I think about leadership, passion and attention to detail, I think back to the call I received from Steve Jobs on a Sunday morning in January.
Steve is not Vic's boss but only that Vic had regular dealings with Steve. In this case too its clearly reflects in the post that Steve is not bossing Vic to do a job himself. He is assigning someone from his team to fix the issue who has to work with Vic.

Its something like a Painter who has build up a reputation over the years through his paintings because of which people view him with a very high regard.

I have a cousin who I view in a very high regard when it comes to photography. I listen to him when he says something about photography and sometimes it takes me a few months to apply some of his imparted knowledge which he said casually as one-liners. It wasn't always like that. He built up that reputation through his work over the years.

If I ever get a call from my cousin about a photo I took and he suggests something about it, I'll be all ears and would be eager to include his suggestion the next time I try taking a similar photo.

Re: Icon Ambulance

#23
post #13
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think attention to detail in terms of a column name is different than attention to visual design and look and feel of a product.

Nope, it's just as important. "Good design is thorough through the details" and that permeates all the way from visual design to code to database. This is actually what makes Jobs different: he knows every little detail matters, anywhere, and that it's just not a gimmick. This is what it takes to have a robust, elegant, awesome and enjoyable product.

Exactly, this is a perfect application of Jobs' quote from the '80s about how a carpenter wouldn't put a piece of plywood on the back of a cabinet, even it was just going to face the wall.

Re: Icon Ambulance

#24
post #6

Because it's Steve Jobs, this is a great anecdote. I'm sure we'll hear dozens of them in the next couple days and weeks, all examples of Jobs' attention to detail and design resulting in superior products and software. Yet imagine your boss calling you on a Sunday and saying, "So I was reviewing the DBA's data model for the new product, and I really don't like how he's called the columns with customers identifiers 'c…

not if your boss saved a multi billion $ business from bankruptcy and converted it into the most valuable company in the US. It is the credibility that Jobs has built over many decades that speaks as all these blog posts now.. If you know the man who calls you on a Sunday deeply cares about the product's finish, you better be part of the perfection than spoil it.

I kind of agree. But that's still micromanaging. Even though Steve's micromanaging seems to be excellent, it still will fire back at some point. That point might be now.

Re: Icon Ambulance

#25
post #9
post #6

Because it's Steve Jobs, this is a great anecdote. I'm sure we'll hear dozens of them in the next couple days and weeks, all examples of Jobs' attention to detail and design resulting in superior products and software. Yet imagine your boss calling you on a Sunday and saying, "So I was reviewing the DBA's data model for the new product, and I really don't like how he's called the columns with customers identifiers 'c…

I think attention to detail in terms of a column name is different than attention to visual design and look and feel of a product.

Steve Jobs doesn't think so. Have you seen the insides of Apple products? They're as beautiful as the outsides of competitors' products.

Re: Icon Ambulance

#26
post #21
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a first hand account. Are you calling Vic a liar? :-)

Wouldn't be surprising if joshu knew him...and it certainly wouldn't be the first time someone exaggerated an anecdote about an interaction with a famous person.

[deleted]

Re: Icon Ambulance

#27
post #21
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a first hand account. Are you calling Vic a liar? :-)

Wouldn't be surprising if joshu knew him...and it certainly wouldn't be the first time someone exaggerated an anecdote about an interaction with a famous person.

Not commenting about something specific related to this post, but people are always riding coattails, consciously or subconsciously. Karma whoring, link baiting, name dropping- they may sound cruel, but almost all of us do that subconsciously, if not deliberately.

Re: Icon Ambulance

#28
post #6

Because it's Steve Jobs, this is a great anecdote. I'm sure we'll hear dozens of them in the next couple days and weeks, all examples of Jobs' attention to detail and design resulting in superior products and software. Yet imagine your boss calling you on a Sunday and saying, "So I was reviewing the DBA's data model for the new product, and I really don't like how he's called the columns with customers identifiers 'c…

not if your boss saved a multi billion $ business from bankruptcy and converted it into the most valuable company in the US. It is the credibility that Jobs has built over many decades that speaks as all these blog posts now.. If you know the man who calls you on a Sunday deeply cares about the product's finish, you better be part of the perfection than spoil it.

not if your boss saved a multi billion $ business from bankruptcy and converted it into the most valuable company in the US

Note that such achievements are not mutually exclusive with batshit nuttery. See Howard Hughes, for instance.

Re: Icon Ambulance

#29
post #6

Because it's Steve Jobs, this is a great anecdote. I'm sure we'll hear dozens of them in the next couple days and weeks, all examples of Jobs' attention to detail and design resulting in superior products and software. Yet imagine your boss calling you on a Sunday and saying, "So I was reviewing the DBA's data model for the new product, and I really don't like how he's called the columns with customers identifiers 'c…

It happens that when you build respect by demonstrating excellence in your work yourself. You can get far more work done even without saying anything.

Not a long time ago, I worked under a manager. At that time during the start of the project, we had to learn a lot of new technologies to get started. One of the technologies was Perl. Now typically managers leave it to the developers to do all this. But not with this manager, before asking anybody learn it, he took a a week's holiday. When he was back next week, he called for a meeting and started training all the junior guys. And demonstrated what he expected from everybody by doing it himself. His motto was simple, he would never demand from others at work what he couldn't give himself.

He ensured we got know everything that was required. Anytime we were stuck, he would personally ensure we were unblocked. He worked, conducted meetings, did his managerial duties and still wrote programs with us. He would stay with us, if things went on late in the night. He would sweat with us.

Net result, whenever a request came from him we would do it no matter what it took.

At the very same time, I have also worked under extremely arrogant people with no clue about management and seen how things go. No plans at hand, no ways to measure and track. Assign work, and come after a month or so and just pick up fight with developers for simple issues just to assert authority. Fight and demoralize people until you have ensured you get the feeling that you have the developer feel that you are the boss. When people make mistakes you are supposed to counsel them, not demoralize and abuse them to assert authority and get job done by force.

Now what respect would such people command, even their legitimate demands are looked in a negative angle.

Its all about how you deal with people, people skills are a requisite for every job that requires dealing with people in a way or the other.

Re: Icon Ambulance

#30
post #6

Because it's Steve Jobs, this is a great anecdote. I'm sure we'll hear dozens of them in the next couple days and weeks, all examples of Jobs' attention to detail and design resulting in superior products and software. Yet imagine your boss calling you on a Sunday and saying, "So I was reviewing the DBA's data model for the new product, and I really don't like how he's called the columns with customers identifiers 'c…

Exactly, it's the kind of free pass that celebrities good at something typically get. "Yeah he's a bit {arrogant|rowdy|quirky|..} but (s)he's one of the best {football players|pop singers|CEOs|..} in the world so we can live with that". Case in point, Maradona.
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