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Re: undefined

#21

Post by ern » Thu, Aug 25, 2011, 7:16 AM UTC

nohat wrote: post #9

200 times GNP? Unlikely. Jared Diamond's book by the same name? That's not very specific if you don't know the name of the book. Is it "Iceland’s ninth century agrarian collapse?" Also she uses million where she probably meant billion (the author is American and she addresses Americans, so American millions should be what she's using). Otherwise, if her facts are correct then it is a very interesting case. I'm partic…

The book is called "Collapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed", and it covers the collapse of Greenland Norse society, not the collapse of Iceland, as the article claims.

Re: undefined

#22

Post by troymc » Thu, Aug 25, 2011, 7:22 AM UTC

Here's a good BBC article that covers much of the same ground (but which probably had more people look it over before publication):

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-13022524

Re: undefined

#23

Post by yesbabyyes » Thu, Aug 25, 2011, 7:28 AM UTC

ern wrote: post #21

nohat wrote: post #9

200 times GNP? Unlikely. Jared Diamond's book by the same name? That's not very specific if you don't know the name of the book. Is it "Iceland’s ninth century agrarian collapse?" Also she uses million where she probably meant billion (the author is American and she addresses Americans, so American millions should be what she's using). Otherwise, if her facts are correct then it is a very interesting case. I'm partic…

The book is called "Collapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed", and it covers the collapse of Greenland Norse society, not the collapse of Iceland, as the article claims.

It covers Iceland as well.

Re: undefined

#24

Post by EGreg » Thu, Aug 25, 2011, 7:32 AM UTC

psykotic wrote: post #10

typicalrunt wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a naive question but why did Icelandic banks allow such a bubble to happen? I realize it's not easy to see the forest from the trees, but isn't there some point at which banks start to see that they are taking on too much debt?

I'm totally not qualified to talk about this, but since I'm just writing an off-the-cuff comment on a website, I can at least give you my impression. Don't take my word for it, I'm probably full of shit. Keep in mind that the debt here means that depositors gave them money in the usual bank arrangement. When you deposit money with your bank, they don't let the money sit in a physical vault or the digital equivalent.…

Are you the same psykotic who was on EFNet in the past? I forgot where, but it may have been the #webdesign channel

Re: undefined

#25

Post by psykotic » Thu, Aug 25, 2011, 7:36 AM UTC

EGreg wrote: post #24

psykotic wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm totally not qualified to talk about this, but since I'm just writing an off-the-cuff comment on a website, I can at least give you my impression. Don't take my word for it, I'm probably full of shit. Keep in mind that the debt here means that depositors gave them money in the usual bank arrangement. When you deposit money with your bank, they don't let the money sit in a physical vault or the digital equivalent.…

Are you the same psykotic who was on EFNet in the past? I forgot where, but it may have been the #webdesign channel

You're thinking of #flipCode and the network was EnterTheGame.

Re: undefined

#26

Post by psykotic » Thu, Aug 25, 2011, 7:40 AM UTC

watmough wrote: post #13

psykotic wrote: post #3

Beware: This article is filled with factual errors. I was making a list as I went along, and when I afterwards read the comments section I realized I had overlooked many more. That does not by itself affect the validity of the author's overarching thesis, but if someone can't be bothered to get their basic facts straight (e.g. Iceland's EU membership status), it casts serious doubt on their ability to perform the muc…

"I was surprised to learn (and until it is confirmed elsewhere, I remain skeptical) that the UK and Holland threatened to freeze the funds of all Icelander-held bank accounts." Here's some indication that all the assets in the UK of Landsbanki, were seized under terror laws. http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=a...

Thanks, that makes more sense. The article gave a different impression:

> The British government threatened to freeze Icelander savings and checking accounts.

Unless I'm totally daft, this is saying the British government was threatening to freeze UK-based bank accounts of individual Icelanders. Chalk up another factual inaccuracy. I'm not well versed in this stuff, so it's a really bad sign when I can stumble over errors and inaccuracies in damn near every other paragraph.

Re: undefined

#27

Post by archangel_one » Thu, Aug 25, 2011, 7:41 AM UTC

arethuza wrote: post #17

hollerith wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>the author is American and she addresses Americans, so American millions should be what she's using A British million is the same thing as an American million: it is the words "billion", "trillion", etc, that mean different things in British English than in American English. But that just makes your point more true, namely, the OP probably meant billion.

I'm in the UK and I've never heard anyone using billion in anything other than the standard sense (10^9).

Neither have I. The UK formally switched to the short scale (aka "American billions") forty years ago, so you wouldn't really expect to any more. I don't know why this rumour of Britain still using the long scale still perpetuates.

Re: undefined

#28

Post by justincormack » Thu, Aug 25, 2011, 7:42 AM UTC

arethuza wrote: post #17

hollerith wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>the author is American and she addresses Americans, so American millions should be what she's using A British million is the same thing as an American million: it is the words "billion", "trillion", etc, that mean different things in British English than in American English. But that just makes your point more true, namely, the OP probably meant billion.

I'm in the UK and I've never heard anyone using billion in anything other than the standard sense (10^9).

It used to happen, years back, but has indeed become obsolete. (it was 10^12 ie a million million). WHen I was a kid there was confusion...

Re: undefined

#29

Post by abrahamsen » Thu, Aug 25, 2011, 7:49 AM UTC

arethuza wrote: post #17

hollerith wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>the author is American and she addresses Americans, so American millions should be what she's using A British million is the same thing as an American million: it is the words "billion", "trillion", etc, that mean different things in British English than in American English. But that just makes your point more true, namely, the OP probably meant billion.

I'm in the UK and I've never heard anyone using billion in anything other than the standard sense (10^9).

You switched in 1974.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_and_short_scales

Re: undefined

#30

Post by _b8r0 » Thu, Aug 25, 2011, 8:14 AM UTC

guelo wrote: post #19

What I didn't understand about the Greece situation is why they caved to the massive privatization and austerity measures when they should have realized that they are the ones in the drivers seat. If Greece defaults it's the German banks who will pay instead of the Greek public. Of course if the German banks fail it will put the whole Euro project in danger, but why should it be up to ordinary Greeks to save the Euro…

If Greece stuck to that strategy they they'd face significant reprisals from the Germans and rest of the Eurozone. During the negotiations France and Germany were talking about not just booting Greece out of the Euro but also using the Lisbon treaty to take control of Greece's fiscal policy.