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Divorce does funny things

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Re: Divorce does funny things

#141

Post by nvarsj »

cm2012 wrote: post #58

On infidelity - to some extent people's personal business is not my business. But if I hear that someone was unfaithful to their spouse, my business trust in them goes waaay down. If they're willing to break trust with the person closest to them in their life, what chance do I have as a mere business partner of not being screwed over at some point?

Your view seems so incredibly judgemental to me. I suppose that's your right, but in my own experience, plenty of people have personal struggles while being very successful at business. I think it is also a view that is uncomfortably similar to those who discriminate, justifying it on their own moral (usually religious based) code.

Re: Divorce does funny things

#142

Post by schwartzworld »

cm2012 wrote: post #94
holoduke wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone is able to fall in love with someone else if put into a certain position with the right attributes. That's how the world works and is in many cases not the end of the world. Setting someone up in a business deal is much worse. So these 2 things are completely different and not the same.

It's one thing to be upfront. "I love someone new, let's divorce / some other arrangement." There will be hurt feelings but that's life. The honesty will help everyone in the long run. It's entirely another thing to sneak around - to do something you promised not to do, but in secret, so you don't get caught. It is my observation and experience that the kind of person who breaks trust in secret is not someone I want…

> that the kind of person who breaks trust in secret

Who has never lied or "broken trust in secret" in their lives? You'd hold someone forever accountable for making a horrible mistake that had nothing to do with you?

Re: Divorce does funny things

#143

Post by atoav »

rich_sasha wrote: post #119
cm2012 wrote: post #58

On infidelity - to some extent people's personal business is not my business. But if I hear that someone was unfaithful to their spouse, my business trust in them goes waaay down. If they're willing to break trust with the person closest to them in their life, what chance do I have as a mere business partner of not being screwed over at some point?

I don’t know. What if the partner is a bad, manipulative actor, but it is just too difficult to dissolve the marriage? For the sake of children, financial commitments, costs, unfair legacy laws and so on? It’s certainly not unheard of, so I’ll keep sweeping personality assessments based on cheating at bay. There’s clearly also other reasons, I’m not saying cheating partners are always poor martyrs of circumstance.

Technically everything can be used to establish a (operational) perception of a person — and everything can be wrong. Someone wears a Rolex? Maybe they are rich and want to show off, maybe they inherited it from a dying family member. If they however additionally drive a super car, wear designer clothes the likelyhood of alternative explainations goes down.

If someone is a nice, cordial and all around good person and you hear they cheated on their wife you might give them the benefit of the doubt for a moment. If someone behaves like the person who would cheat you now have the smoking gun.

Why do egoists cheat on people? Because they don't care.

Why do good people cheat? Because their relationship didn't provide them with something they needed and they weren't able to either communicate their needs properly to their partners or end the relationship.

Re: Divorce does funny things

#144

Post by astrange »

pcbro141 wrote: post #29
s5300 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Relationship market seems like it's the best it's ever been, from a standpoint of equality, that is. COVID unfortunately brought domestic violence rates up, but I wouldn't lump that in with the generality of "relationship market", it's a more serious & specific issue. edit: Ahh, by the time I finish posting you've come and brought up the "nuclear family" Hard to imagine anything good will come from a discussion hingi…

> Ahh, by the time I finish posting you've come and brought up the "nuclear family" > Hard to imagine anything good will come from a discussion hinging on that. Genuine question, why does it sound like you find me advocating for a 2 parent household almost offensive? Is it because you don't believe any of the data about kids raised in 2 parent households is valid? From my perspective, I genuinely don't understand you…

A nuclear family (2 parents) isn't as good as an extended family (more than 2 parents).

Re: Divorce does funny things

#145

Post by bryanrasmussen »

kkjjkgjjgg wrote: post #140
mpol wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is not only loyalty in that situation. There is also lying to your partner and the children, and the example and values that you give to your children. Apparently the children are important to you, otherwise you would be gone from a bad relationship. It involves lying to people that are important to you, which does not speak well for trustworthiness. I can imagine the children are more important than someone ou…

What would be the alternative to lying?

well the alternative to lying would be that both partners know they can't stand each other but are remaining together for the sake of the children, I figure once you are at that point of remaining together for the sake of the children and nothing else probably both parties know the score.

Re: Divorce does funny things

#146

Post by mellavora »

DeathArrow wrote: post #92
dlsa wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In plenty of places, you don't even want to live with someone too long without a pre-nuptial agreement and even then the law can cancel those agreements.

You can also take preventive measures, establish an offshore company and move all your assets on that. Move money in off-shore accounts. If you have nothing under your name, nothing can be taken from you.

The IRS might look at this strategy differently, and they might have more resources than your (ex) partner.

Re: Divorce does funny things

#147

Post by kkjjkgjjgg »

bryanrasmussen wrote: post #145
kkjjkgjjgg wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would be the alternative to lying?

well the alternative to lying would be that both partners know they can't stand each other but are remaining together for the sake of the children, I figure once you are at that point of remaining together for the sake of the children and nothing else probably both parties know the score.

What if your (ex) partner takes the children away with them? You can't be sure that they also consider staying together for the children to be the best course of action.

Re: Divorce does funny things

#148

Post by thriftwy »

kkjjkgjjgg wrote: post #147
bryanrasmussen wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

well the alternative to lying would be that both partners know they can't stand each other but are remaining together for the sake of the children, I figure once you are at that point of remaining together for the sake of the children and nothing else probably both parties know the score.

What if your (ex) partner takes the children away with them? You can't be sure that they also consider staying together for the children to be the best course of action.

Obviosly you are trying to take something that is not yours.

Getting a five finger discount to get (unilaterally) open relationship at a cost of regular one.

Re: Divorce does funny things

#149

Post by nvarsj »

pcbro141 wrote: post #19
anonporridge wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless a declining population is good for future prosperity. If you force a continuation of replacement rate births or even growth, but most of those humans are economically worthless, you'll drag down your whole society.

I'm not talking solely about births (didn't even mention the birth rate), I'm saying for mental health/general thriving of society too. Kids raised in married 2 parent households are less likely to end up homeless, achieve better academically and earn more, have less depression/suicide rates etc. Literally every outcome is better for stable 2 parent homes. The decline of the 2 parent nuclear family means more kids wi…

Such statistics are misleading and it's a pet peeve when they are pulled out in discussions. You can't predict a child's outcome so simply. Both Obama and Clinton were raised by single parents. Such statistics are only on average. Yet so many conservatives use these kinds of statistics to shame and guilt single parents, and try to justify policies of discrimination against non traditional family structures.

Re: Divorce does funny things

#150

Post by llampx »

me_im_counting wrote: post #27
mrsmee89 wrote: post #9

As a divorced man, I can attest to this wholeheartedly. There's an energy a man gets when you're building a family that helps motivate through the struggle. When you get divorced, especially when kids are involved, there's an expectation in our society (court system, social pressure, etc) to continue life as if that energy still exists, it simply doesn't. It's maddening. Breaking up a family is lose-lose. There are n…

Are they? At least among wealthy men, it seems much more common for them to remarry and make a brand new second family while the ex wife is left doing most things for the first set of kids. Plus, it’s significantly more common for men to leave their wives when their wives get diagnosed with cancer than vice versa. IMO, divorce sucks worst for whoever is the most conscientious person and invested in the family, regard…

> At least among wealthy men, it seems much more common for them to remarry and make a brand new second family while the ex wife is left doing most things for the first set of kids.

Your mistake here is conflating what the 1% do with the rest of the world. Its like looking at the richest people in hte world, deciding that they're all men so there must be a patriarchy and that all men are rich. Nowhere near close to the truth.

> Plus, it’s significantly more common for men to leave their wives when their wives get diagnosed with cancer than vice versa.

Citation definitely needed. At least anecdotally, women seem to be just as capable of leaving a sick spouse as men and in fact are supported by society for doing so more than a man in a similar situation.

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