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Taproot, Bitcoin’s long-anticipated upgrade, has activated

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Re: Taproot, Bitcoin’s long-anticipated upgrade, has activated

#151
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then it's going to be weaponized to launder money and be made illegal eventually.

The banks themselves launder money for organized crime. Why shouldn’t money laundering be available to the masses too?

Banks and governments*

Re: Taproot, Bitcoin’s long-anticipated upgrade, has activated

#152
post #6

A crazy thing with Taproot is: A company could create a virtual bank to handle all transfers with its suppliers by doing a single onchain transaction. From the outside, it would look like a normal "Someone sent some coins from address A to address B" transaction. But internally, a key needed to spend the funds is only valid if the company and all of its suppliers sign it. This means every time there is a transaction…

He’s talking about lightning network with multisig support, which I thought they always had, only that with taproot a multi signiture can be combined as one, which would look like a single person signed it

Re: Taproot, Bitcoin’s long-anticipated upgrade, has activated

#153
post #101

One of the most interesting things in this experiment was the speedy trial imo. We now have an agreed way to change/improve consensus rules. It's very difficult to get a handful of people to agree on something, let alone all the different participants in this global/borderless system.

Taproot was proposed 2.5 years ago; maybe that's speedy in "Bitcoin core time".

It is a feature, it is not a bug.

Re: Taproot, Bitcoin’s long-anticipated upgrade, has activated

#154
post #88
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

BTC is not built to support KYC/AML.

Then it's going to be weaponized to launder money and be made illegal eventually.

There are a multitude of other crypto coins, that have been around for a long while, that similarly provide lots of privacy, and yet they aren't illegal.

People have been yelling about this all being made illegal for literally a decade, and it hasn't happened yet.

Re: Taproot, Bitcoin’s long-anticipated upgrade, has activated

#155
post #142
post #6

A crazy thing with Taproot is: A company could create a virtual bank to handle all transfers with its suppliers by doing a single onchain transaction. From the outside, it would look like a normal "Someone sent some coins from address A to address B" transaction. But internally, a key needed to spend the funds is only valid if the company and all of its suppliers sign it. This means every time there is a transaction…

So if I’m a single supplier and I want to act as a hostile actor in order to negotiate better terms or something, does my refusing to sign mean that _all_ supplier transactions are reversed or at least slowed on chain? Is there an actual attack surface here? Also, if I’m adding a new supplier in this example, do I have to spin up an entirely new “virtual bank” to do so? Or can I just add them to the current one? What…

This is a new fundamental building block that would help make these types of scenarios possible. However, by the time end users get an implementation, it will likely be more complicated than a single transaction for the reasons you mention and others.

Also note, as exemplified by altcoins it is always possible to trade off decentralization or security for more features.

Re: Taproot, Bitcoin’s long-anticipated upgrade, has activated

#156
post #6

A crazy thing with Taproot is: A company could create a virtual bank to handle all transfers with its suppliers by doing a single onchain transaction. From the outside, it would look like a normal "Someone sent some coins from address A to address B" transaction. But internally, a key needed to spend the funds is only valid if the company and all of its suppliers sign it. This means every time there is a transaction…

Would that be useful for privacy too?

Re: Taproot, Bitcoin’s long-anticipated upgrade, has activated

#157
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So basically, does that mean KYC/AML are officially dead in BTC's environment? The picture was not bright before, but with this kind of innovations, it seems impossible for this network to build banking systems that respect regulations.

Good riddance. I don't think KYC/AML are a force for good. Its just more box ticking laws that serve to give a false sense of security while poor people are being excluded from the banking system and normal people have their all their data stolen from centralized databases. Real dangerous criminals don't give a damn about KYC/AML laws and operate freely within the banking framework. The European Central Bank chairwom…

> Good riddance. I don't think KYC/AML are a force for good

If KYC/AML is not possible in the bitcoin world, you're not going to be getting a world with bitcoin that doesn't have KYC/AML.

You're going to get a world with no bitcoin.

Re: Taproot, Bitcoin’s long-anticipated upgrade, has activated

#158
I don't think the energy criticisms are that warranted.

In my mind, it speaks more to a criticism of how poor our current energy infrastructure is.

I don't think for example in 30 years it'll be a big problem when energy becomes more abundant and building nuclear reactors are easier.

And this is coming from someone who believes Bitcoin is little more than a Ponzi scheme and most of the innovation in fintech is happening outside the cryptocurrency space.

Still, it's pretty cool that changes to Bitcoin can happen like this. Makes me think eventually they'll figure out a use case for it, besides buying lattes in El Salvador.

Re: Taproot, Bitcoin’s long-anticipated upgrade, has activated

#159
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then it's going to be weaponized to launder money and be made illegal eventually.

There is no future tense here. Bitcoin is designed to be fungible - it's digital cash.

Maybe it was "designed to be", but in reality it isn't.

BTC has a history, so if I had 1 BTC, and you had 1 BTC, they wouldn't be equivalent.

When you deposit BTC into a Coinbase account from a gambling site, CB shuts down your account. That is irrefutable proof that BTC is not fungible.

Compare it to cash which is fungible. If you win money at a casino and deposit it at a bank, the bank doesn't know where you got the cash from.

Re: Taproot, Bitcoin’s long-anticipated upgrade, has activated

#160
post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the transaction is fully signed and can be broadcast at any time by either party to settle. It doesn't have to be broadcasted and further transactions can be done on top and they just keep it private between themselves.

I'm missing how you can have a transaction that is not broadcasted but that prevents a double spend. Can't I give two different people signed transactions for the same bitcoins? How could the second recipient know I've already spent the balance on the first? Apologies for the no-doubt naive questions, it just sounds impossible.

There would first be 1 broadcasted on-chain transaction setting up the channel, with X of my bitcoin and Y of your bitcoin being locked up. This prevents double spend. Then, you and I pass n signed transactions between each other updating our balances Xt & Yt for each t, t+1, ...t+n. At any time, either one of us can broadcast the final transaction with the most up to date balance and unlock the coins.
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