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Will real estate ever be normal again?

nytimes.com

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Re: Will real estate ever be normal again?

#551

Post by jshen »

t-writescode wrote: post #546
jshen wrote: post #528

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I call bullshit unless you are entry level. The average engineer at a big company with 5 years experience is probably making >$200k all in. I can easily find 2bd 2bath condos and townhomes in Seattle for ~$800k.

There are lots of engineers in the Seattle area that do not work for Google, Facebook, Amazon or Microsoft. I make about 150k / year. I have 10 years experience. Were I a senior, it'd be 180k. Still not much more. It's also the most I've made at any job I've ever worked. My previous company, I was one of the highest paid employees at 115k. Forgive me, but I think you need to check your privilege when you speak about…

You are underpaid. You should look for other jobs to fix that. Also, at 150k you should be able to afford a place that is 500k or more. I bought my first place when I was making 115 and it cost 400k with much higher interest rates than today. Those are just facts, and it’s a fact that the average tech salary is sufficient to buy a place in Seattle.

Privilege? I grew up very poor, no one in my immediate family has finished high school, let alone college. I enlisted in the army and did a tour in a war to pay for my college. I was in a similar boat to you and the others complaining when I was early in my career and I’m trying to help with some perspective and experience.

You can complain about the cost of housing, complain about whatever privilege you think I have, but it won’t help you get to a better place. I’m offering advice to help get you all to a better place because I faced the same challenges and overcame them.

Re: Will real estate ever be normal again?

#552

Post by jshen »

t-writescode wrote: post #543
jshen wrote: post #530

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You aren’t making a typical engineering salary if you can’t afford a $500k place.

I make 150k / year. I'm an SDE 2. The problem isn't the monthly payment, the problem is the down payment. And you've said in several places how engineers make 200k+ after 5 years. Maybe in total compensation and only in FAANG; but there are a loooot of engineering companies in Washington and the Seattle area that aren't getting hundreds of thousands of dollars in stock that's increased 5-10 fold in the last 2 years.

It’s not just the FAANG companies. You should really check out your worth on the job market. Why dismiss someone telling you that you should easily be able to get paid more? Why the victim mentality?

Re: Will real estate ever be normal again?

#553

Post by t-writescode »

jshen wrote: post #551
t-writescode wrote: post #546

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are lots of engineers in the Seattle area that do not work for Google, Facebook, Amazon or Microsoft. I make about 150k / year. I have 10 years experience. Were I a senior, it'd be 180k. Still not much more. It's also the most I've made at any job I've ever worked. My previous company, I was one of the highest paid employees at 115k. Forgive me, but I think you need to check your privilege when you speak about…

You are underpaid. You should look for other jobs to fix that. Also, at 150k you should be able to afford a place that is 500k or more. I bought my first place when I was making 115 and it cost 400k with much higher interest rates than today. Those are just facts, and it’s a fact that the average tech salary is sufficient to buy a place in Seattle. Privilege? I grew up very poor, no one in my immediate family has fin…

I make over 1.5x the median income in King County. Further, my company makes an effort to operate on the 50th percentile in engineering companies for our positions, so LOTS of people are "underpaid" according to you.

And I can afford a 500k place. I cannot afford the down payment and the surprise assessment tax, etc.

Re: Will real estate ever be normal again?

#554

Post by jshen »

t-writescode wrote: post #553
jshen wrote: post #551

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are underpaid. You should look for other jobs to fix that. Also, at 150k you should be able to afford a place that is 500k or more. I bought my first place when I was making 115 and it cost 400k with much higher interest rates than today. Those are just facts, and it’s a fact that the average tech salary is sufficient to buy a place in Seattle. Privilege? I grew up very poor, no one in my immediate family has fin…

I make over 1.5x the median income in King County. Further, my company makes an effort to operate on the 50th percentile in engineering companies for our positions, so LOTS of people are "underpaid" according to you. And I can afford a 500k place. I cannot afford the down payment and the surprise assessment tax, etc.

I see a lot of tech salaries. I assure you that you are not being paid at the 50th percentile. If your company is telling you that then they are lying to you.

It’s also clear that you don’t really want to be helped, and that you want to find every excuse to play the victim. I wish you luck.

Re: Will real estate ever be normal again?

#555

Post by tedk-42 »

arcticbull wrote: post #489
tedk-42 wrote: post #463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please stop. Zoning issues/lack of supply would imply that there are lots of homeless people without a roof over their head. Investors have too much access to property. It's a system of greed that benefits those who entered the market early (typically boomers). Just stop blaming zoning already.

Sorry but it's zoning's fault haha. > Zoning issues/lack of supply would imply that there are lots of homeless people without a roof over their head. The price of housing only matters to people who don't already have homes they own. 65% of Americans own homes, so that cuts down your working set dramatically. There are a lot of homeless people, yes - 0.2% of the population - but lack of affordable housing tends to be…

the conflict you ond i have is you believe investors are benevolent and are helping poor folk who can't buy.

i don't believe anything of what youre arguing simply because more supply will continue to be purchased by investors to further drive up prices.

Re: Will real estate ever be normal again?

#556

Post by jjav »

sokoloff wrote: post #386
thomasedwards wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is borderline romantic at this point. What bank do you think would ever possibly agree to this? Most people can’t even prove to their banks that they can afford a mortgage that’s less than the rent they’re currently paying.

There’s a lot more expenses as a homeowner than the mortgage (even the PITI (principal, interest, taxes, and insurance)). I can’t think of a year where I didn’t have $5K of crap that needed fixing/replacement/improvements*, the year with the fence was 6x that, and I’ve got a boiler coming due that will be a $15K project in all likelihood, $25K if I go higher-end and improve the piping configuration for more even heat…

> I can’t think of a year where I didn’t have $5K of crap that needed fixing/replacement/improvements

For a contrary anecdote, I've been living in my current house for well over 20 years and not once have I spent 5K in a year in maintenance. Rarely have I spent even over 1K.

I can't think how I could even spend that kind of money in maintenance every year. What's there to fix that costs you so much?

Re: Will real estate ever be normal again?

#557

Post by mikem170 »

toss1 wrote: post #535
mikem170 wrote: post #491

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Those changes are fine and should be decided by those affected, not some set of interlopers Those "interlopers" are people's sons and daughters who want to live where they grew up, growing families that need more space, the retired on a fixed income, the working poor struggling to stay housed, those who spend hours commuting, etc. All of these people are your neighbors, not the enemy. > who just want to basically s…

>>Those "interlopers" are ... I notice that your example start with actual locals growing out of a locale to people who have nothing to do with the locale. Whether someone is enemy or friend all depends on attitude. Are you trying to work with and build upon what the previous generations have built, or are you trying to merely appropriate it because you don't like the price of single-family zoning? >>That depends on…

Your note above contains a lot of assumptions about what I think, and vitriol, words like steal, destroy, trash, etc. This seems to be something that you are emotional about.

Lots of people think it's immoral for neighbors to be able to micromanage the living spaces of other neighbors outside of basic safety issues. I'm not sure how you'd defend imposing your will on other people just because you can at any given moment. Who are you to hijack the decades and centuries that goes into a city, like you mentioned, and freeze it in time for your convenience, at the expense of others who were born into the same society you were. We're all here together, you can't morally just marginalize people you're afraid of.

I stand by my original statement that I think it's wrong for you to characterize everyone who doesn't agree with the way zoning has evolved in this country over the last 100 years as an interloper. We live in a democracy. These are fellow citizens, people who are just as important as you and me.

I'm not in favor of big developers or corporations or profits. I don't want to build a high rise or a factory next to your house. I am in favor of lots more real neighborhoods, as opposed to suburban developer big-box retail car centric sprawl. I am opposed to single use zoning.

If I had a magic wand I think that the way the Japanese do zoning is much better than the way it has evolved in the U.S. [0].

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfm2xCKOCNk

Re: Will real estate ever be normal again?

#558

Post by jjav »

refurb wrote: post #289
paulcole wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think people who parrot this line try to ignore the total cost of their mortgage being quite different from the purchase price of their home, property taxes, repairs, etc. As a lifelong renter, I’ve done quite well by keeping my rent low (my preference is studio/1-bedrooms in relatively dense urban areas) and putting extra money into the market. 30 years from when I started renting, I’ll have quite a lot to show fo…

Precisely. People really underestimate the costs of home ownership. You need to include everything like: 1) mortgage interest, 2) property taxes, 3) insurance, 4) maintenance, 5) opportunity cost of down payment, 6) transaction costs buying and selling. Clearly if you see major appreciation in the value of your house you'll clearly come out ahead of renting, but I've been in two situations (one while renting, one whi…

> You need to include everything like: 1) mortgage interest, 2) property taxes, 3) insurance, 4) maintenance, 5) opportunity cost of down payment, 6) transaction costs buying and selling.

Factor 1 to 4 are all included (with additional profit margin on top) in rent so you're always paying for those regardless. As an owner at least you don't pay the extra profit margin on it to the landlord.

On #6, if you're moving very frequently then yes, you're better off renting. If you want to settle down, buy.

So realistically that only leaves #5 as a consideration. In the short haul it favors the renter but over a lifetime, not so much.

Re: Will real estate ever be normal again?

#559

Post by harambae »

eBombzor wrote: post #344

I finished reading this and the first thing that I thought was this article could be condensed to about half it's size. So much irrelevant information and too many jumps in that Drew/Amena segment. Any ways... yeah the market is in a sad state of affairs. Doesn't help that the mentioned interviewees are also doing a cash grab for themselves by opening up private real estate firms and AirBnb's. Though it's not all ove…

>I'm pretty sure houses in Iowa are as cheap as ever

As a percentage, they actually aren't [0] if you look at the history of sales on most of them, although maybe the total change is more easily tolerated

[0] https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1236-46th-St-Des-Moines-I...

Re: Will real estate ever be normal again?

#560

Post by jjav »

jurassic wrote: post #322
throwvirtever wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't quite understand the obsession with homeownership. If a large enough percentage of people rented from property management companies, there would be more impetus to have strong tenant's rights laws to protect residents, and people would have more flexibility to move around. Moreover everyone would have an interest in increasing supply to keep their own rent down, pushing prices down toward cost-of-materials an…

Money aside, there's a big difference in lifestyle (some might say quality of life) of homeowners vs renters. There's a lot you can do in a property you own yourself that you simply cannot do in a rental. It's hard to put a price on being able to customize things exactly to your liking. For example I recently had 20 year old thermostat replaced with a Nest thermostat that gives me a lot more flexibility and efficienc…

> And greater housing security in old age is very appealing

This can't be overstated. It's one thing to keep up with ever-rising rents as a young professional, but do you want to compete in that market as an older retired person on a fixed income? Or have a paid-off house?

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