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Toyota Forms ‘Team Japan’ to Help Keep Combustion Engine Alive

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Re: Toyota Forms ‘Team Japan’ to Help Keep Combustion Engine Alive

#11

Post by HeyLaughingBoy »

chrisseaton wrote: post #9
CountDrewku wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It works. Show me an EV truck that comes anywhere close to what a Tacoma, Tundra or 4runner can do. Maybe they'll get there but there's gonna need to be some massive advances in batteries to be able to go off-road and pull loads like any of those current trucks can.

> Show me an EV truck that comes anywhere close to what a Tacoma, Tundra or 4runner can do. Weird examples - isn't EV actually uniquely well-suited to off-road and towing? Maximum torque at zero-revs? I can't wait to swap my Defender for a full electric variant when Land Rover manage to ship it - partly for the better capability.

That's an interesting question: 1st gear at idle in low range (4-Low) in a typical ICE vehicle is about a slow walking speed. I wonder how smooth the electric motor would be at that speed without additional gearing.

Anyway, there's off road and there's off road. If you're a few hours from a road, EV can be useful at the low speeds you'll typically be driving at: If you are days from a charging source, not so much.

Going on a long trip with an ICE vehicle, it's not a problem to carry a few cans of gas/diesel.

Re: Toyota Forms ‘Team Japan’ to Help Keep Combustion Engine Alive

#12

Post by itisit »

CountDrewku wrote: post #8
chrisseaton wrote: post #5

What’s the thinking behind it? What is the real advantage to Toyota pushing petrol? Do they think they’ll be raking in money when they’re the last petrol engine cars you can get?

It works. Show me an EV truck that comes anywhere close to what a Tacoma, Tundra or 4runner can do. Maybe they'll get there but there's gonna need to be some massive advances in batteries to be able to go off-road and pull loads like any of those current trucks can.

The F-150 Lightning, R1T, and Cybertruck all offer a minimum towing capacity of 10,000 pounds. The price is higher and the range is lower than their petrol equivalents, but it is false to say these EV trucks are less capable in going off-road and pulling heavy loads.

Re: Toyota Forms ‘Team Japan’ to Help Keep Combustion Engine Alive

#14

Post by Daishiman »

I can't help thinking that this is a decision mostly out of emotional attachment.

Petrolheads _really_ love combustion engines. If you like motorsport it is a visceral, sonic experience: turbo intakes, turbo wastegate explosions, straight-cut transmission whines.

You don't get into the industry without having at least some level of emotional attachment to all of that. EVs, lacking that sensorial component, make for objectively better, but emotionally neutral objects.

I have no problem relegating combustion engines to motorsport and remote locations where fuel density is critical. I also think it we should drive out ICEs from any barely populated area, as the externalities in air and noise pollution are incalculably high.

Re: Toyota Forms ‘Team Japan’ to Help Keep Combustion Engine Alive

#15

Post by chrisseaton »

HeyLaughingBoy wrote: post #11
chrisseaton wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Show me an EV truck that comes anywhere close to what a Tacoma, Tundra or 4runner can do. Weird examples - isn't EV actually uniquely well-suited to off-road and towing? Maximum torque at zero-revs? I can't wait to swap my Defender for a full electric variant when Land Rover manage to ship it - partly for the better capability.

That's an interesting question: 1st gear at idle in low range (4-Low) in a typical ICE vehicle is about a slow walking speed. I wonder how smooth the electric motor would be at that speed without additional gearing. Anyway, there's off road and there's off road. If you're a few hours from a road, EV can be useful at the low speeds you'll typically be driving at: If you are days from a charging source, not so much. Go…

> I wonder how smooth the electric motor would be at that speed without additional gearing.

Have you seen the Bollinger trials?

https://youtu.be/W7TK6WhU_l4?t=379

Militaries are also looking very keenly towards EV because it lets you crawl silently over ground, where in a diesel you need to rev it up and get some momentum going.

> Anyway, there's off road and there's off road.

Saying as someone who professionally operates genuinely off-road - I can't wait.

Re: Toyota Forms ‘Team Japan’ to Help Keep Combustion Engine Alive

#16

Post by Daishiman »

CountDrewku wrote: post #8
chrisseaton wrote: post #5

What’s the thinking behind it? What is the real advantage to Toyota pushing petrol? Do they think they’ll be raking in money when they’re the last petrol engine cars you can get?

It works. Show me an EV truck that comes anywhere close to what a Tacoma, Tundra or 4runner can do. Maybe they'll get there but there's gonna need to be some massive advances in batteries to be able to go off-road and pull loads like any of those current trucks can.

EVs will take over this role among the first things. Instant torque, no transmission, torque vectoring, no switching gears, no differential.

Re: Toyota Forms ‘Team Japan’ to Help Keep Combustion Engine Alive

#17

Post by meepmorp »

chrisseaton wrote: post #5

What’s the thinking behind it? What is the real advantage to Toyota pushing petrol? Do they think they’ll be raking in money when they’re the last petrol engine cars you can get?

They bet on hydrogen vs electric cars, and that didn't pay off. They're already good at making ICE vehicles, so rather make up for a huge amount of lost time and effort, it's a bid to keep the current business going.

Re: Toyota Forms ‘Team Japan’ to Help Keep Combustion Engine Alive

#18

Post by tonywastaken »

rdtwo wrote: post #13

Much of the world still does not have stable and reliable power grids. It’s hard to see how v electric cars could possibly work in areas where you might get power for 1-4hrs a day. If it look at where the hilux is #1 it’s those areas

You mean the Land Cruiser?

Re: Toyota Forms ‘Team Japan’ to Help Keep Combustion Engine Alive

#19

Post by rdtwo »

tonywastaken wrote: post #18
rdtwo wrote: post #13

Much of the world still does not have stable and reliable power grids. It’s hard to see how v electric cars could possibly work in areas where you might get power for 1-4hrs a day. If it look at where the hilux is #1 it’s those areas

You mean the Land Cruiser?

Hilux sorry

Re: Toyota Forms ‘Team Japan’ to Help Keep Combustion Engine Alive

#20

Post by genousti »

meepmorp wrote: post #17
chrisseaton wrote: post #5

What’s the thinking behind it? What is the real advantage to Toyota pushing petrol? Do they think they’ll be raking in money when they’re the last petrol engine cars you can get?

They bet on hydrogen vs electric cars, and that didn't pay off. They're already good at making ICE vehicles, so rather make up for a huge amount of lost time and effort, it's a bid to keep the current business going.

Lets see in 10 years. Id bet hydrogen is one fundamental discovery away from winning
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