Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Taproot, Bitcoin’s long-anticipated upgrade, has activated

coindesk.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 237 posts

Re: Taproot, Bitcoin’s long-anticipated upgrade, has activated

#61

Post by zaptrem »

Glench wrote: post #59
traceddd wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems petty. Of course it’s easier to make changes when you just launched and there are less parties and more centralization at a leadership level. 8 months doesn’t really seem like something worthy to brag over.

Well, Bitcoin still doesn't have graftroot so it's 8 months and counting :) And Lord help me I'm talking about crypto on hacker news but Chia seems just better engineered overall: - uses between 300x and 10000x less energy for the same security as Bitcoin - has the most number of farmers/validators of any blockchain - supports around ~25 transactions per second (as opposed to bitcoin's 5) - very efficient and auditab…

> ~25 TPS

Still a couple orders of magnitude away from being a significant difference.

Re: Taproot, Bitcoin’s long-anticipated upgrade, has activated

#62

Post by dang »

nanna wrote: post #47

Can anyone explain why my genuine question below -- "When will BTC move to an energy efficient protocol?" -- was flagged? Seems a bit gratuitous?

That's a classic flamewar topic, so if your comment didn't have anything new and interesting to say, users will tend to flag it as flamebait. (I haven't seen the comment.)

Re: Taproot, Bitcoin’s long-anticipated upgrade, has activated

#63

Post by tgb »

gruez wrote: post #41
piaste wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

However, if nothing happens on the Bitcoin network, then the funds aren't locked down, are they? In other words, Billie has no guarantee that the key she holds will be valid tomorrow; Katy could empty that account at any time, and Billie would then hold nothing except the evidence of Katy's wrongdoing.

> However, if nothing happens on the Bitcoin network, then the funds aren't locked down, are they? they are locked down. the funds in a lightning channel are locked in a 2 of 2 multisig address, and can only be moved upon mutual consent (ie. by updating the state of the channel), or by one party after sufficient time has passed (in case of an uncooperative peer).

Does this stop a double spend?

Re: Taproot, Bitcoin’s long-anticipated upgrade, has activated

#64

Post by PKop »

gruez wrote: post #41
piaste wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

However, if nothing happens on the Bitcoin network, then the funds aren't locked down, are they? In other words, Billie has no guarantee that the key she holds will be valid tomorrow; Katy could empty that account at any time, and Billie would then hold nothing except the evidence of Katy's wrongdoing.

> However, if nothing happens on the Bitcoin network, then the funds aren't locked down, are they? they are locked down. the funds in a lightning channel are locked in a 2 of 2 multisig address, and can only be moved upon mutual consent (ie. by updating the state of the channel), or by one party after sufficient time has passed (in case of an uncooperative peer).

What do these LN dynamics (which seem to have existed for a little while already now) have to do with Taproot?

OP was describing something in the context of Taproot and now you and others are talking about Lightning. What is the new development here?

Re: Taproot, Bitcoin’s long-anticipated upgrade, has activated

#65

Post by space_rock »

Glench wrote: post #5

A snarky tweet from Bram Cohen of Chia (which has had taproot and graftroot enabled since launch in March): > Congratulations to Bitcoin for joining the club of UTXO-based cryptocurrencies which have taproot enabled. https://twitter.com/bramcohen/status/1459755439294275584

Centralised scams live off comparing themselves to a decentralised currency like bitcoin

Re: Taproot, Bitcoin’s long-anticipated upgrade, has activated

#66

Post by gruez »

Glench wrote: post #59
traceddd wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems petty. Of course it’s easier to make changes when you just launched and there are less parties and more centralization at a leadership level. 8 months doesn’t really seem like something worthy to brag over.

Well, Bitcoin still doesn't have graftroot so it's 8 months and counting :) And Lord help me I'm talking about crypto on hacker news but Chia seems just better engineered overall: - uses between 300x and 10000x less energy for the same security as Bitcoin - has the most number of farmers/validators of any blockchain - supports around ~25 transactions per second (as opposed to bitcoin's 5) - very efficient and auditab…

> - uses between 300x and 10000x less energy for the same security as Bitcoin

right, but instead of mostly electricity being poured into mining, now it's hard drive components. It's still the same amount of dollars (resources) poured into mining. The only difference is shifting it from opex to capex.

>- has the most number of farmers/validators of any blockchain

valid point, although I wouldn't really chalk it up to it being "better engineered". bitcoin supports validation at the miner level (ie. you can do the validation, rather than trusting/relying on the pool) as well via getblocktemplate. It's just not widely adopted for whatever reason.

Re: Taproot, Bitcoin’s long-anticipated upgrade, has activated

#67

Post by gruez »

tgb wrote: post #63
gruez wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> However, if nothing happens on the Bitcoin network, then the funds aren't locked down, are they? they are locked down. the funds in a lightning channel are locked in a 2 of 2 multisig address, and can only be moved upon mutual consent (ie. by updating the state of the channel), or by one party after sufficient time has passed (in case of an uncooperative peer).

Does this stop a double spend?

Yes, why wouldn't it? The funds are locked in a 2 of 2 multisig address.

Re: Taproot, Bitcoin’s long-anticipated upgrade, has activated

#68

Post by space_rock »

G3rn0ti wrote: post #30
teekert wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"And all of the transaction were free", Wait? Since when are transactions free and instant? Is that part of this upgrade? The only costs are with the "bank transaction"?

Parent talks about the „Lightning Network“ — a Layer 2 scaling solution for Bitcoin. Beware: I am still a crypto noob but I am still going to try to explain how I understood the system so far. Edited: Minor terminology and typos. Roughly speaking the Lightning Network works similar to a „current account“ that businesses have between each other but does not require the actors to trust each other. The parties initiate…

"Bitcoin may now be wired back and forth between the parties on layer 2 w/o needed to be settled individually on the Bitcoin block chain." Cooperatively update the final state would be more precise. And if one party is uncooperative then a timeout contract becomes valid. Your understanding is generally correct. Also bitcoin doesn't use the word crypto which is closely associated with scams. Bitcoin is about the 21 million coin limit so only one currency not cryptocurrencies.

Re: Taproot, Bitcoin’s long-anticipated upgrade, has activated

#69

Post by jessaustin »

johnday wrote: post #51
TekMol wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

BMW will not accept it's bitcoin being locked for 90 days The way I see the future, BMW will not only lock their Bitcoin for 90 days but much longer. And not only the Bitcoin they owe to one supplier. But a large portion of their Bitcoin. Aka their virtual bank account. They can still use their account however they like. But if one of their suppliers feels that the balance goes dangerously low, the supplier can block…

Surely suppliers want to be paid? Accumulating a huge pile of IOUs is of zero benefit to someone who has actual real-world costs, such as taxes, payroll and capital outlays.

Lots of firms, especially those whose value is based partially on "predictable" profits, want to schedule payments in Q2 rather than Q1.

Re: Taproot, Bitcoin’s long-anticipated upgrade, has activated

#70

Post by vmception »

rawtxapp wrote: post #19

One of the most interesting things in this experiment was the speedy trial imo. We now have an agreed way to change/improve consensus rules. It's very difficult to get a handful of people to agree on something, let alone all the different participants in this global/borderless system.

Interesting take, I found the trial to be aggravatingly slow because the bitcoin community is too risk averse and also inattentive, whereas people (person) disagreeing with you basically have no idea how long it actually took and use it to bolster their view that bitcoin is centralized and amorphous.
Post reply on HN