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Taproot, Bitcoin’s long-anticipated upgrade, has activated

coindesk.com

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Re: Taproot, Bitcoin’s long-anticipated upgrade, has activated

#11

Post by Mistletoe »

nanna wrote: post #2

When will BTC move to an energy efficient protocol?

It will never. Best option is just invest in Ethereum which has Proof of Stake (not energy-intensive) coming next year. The changeover to it being the top coin is inevitable. It only needs to double its market cap right now to do so, which isn’t that difficult in something as wild as crypto. And I say that without bias and I’m about 80/20 BTC/ETH right now. I think the coming months may be the last hurrah for BTC. There’s no need to use that much energy and it will only get more important with time. I have lost an incredible amount of money backing the wrong horse the past year or two and being in Bitcoin as Ethereum has eaten its lunch.

BTC maximalists will file in below me with bogus attestations that proof of stake is bad and none of it will be correct or factual. Proof of stake actually increases decentralization and eliminates the fact that now to mine btc you need to be near a very cheap electricity source and have ties that can get you the fastest asic mining machines as soon as they come out.

Source: Myself, a former crypto miner.

Re: Taproot, Bitcoin’s long-anticipated upgrade, has activated

#12

Post by teekert »

TekMol wrote: post #6

A crazy thing with Taproot is: A company could create a virtual bank to handle all transfers with its suppliers by doing a single onchain transaction. From the outside, it would look like a normal "Someone sent some coins from address A to address B" transaction. But internally, a key needed to spend the funds is only valid if the company and all of its suppliers sign it. This means every time there is a transaction…

"And all of the transaction were free", Wait? Since when are transactions free and instant? Is that part of this upgrade? The only costs are with the "bank transaction"?

Re: Taproot, Bitcoin’s long-anticipated upgrade, has activated

#13

Post by tromp »

TekMol wrote: post #6

A crazy thing with Taproot is: A company could create a virtual bank to handle all transfers with its suppliers by doing a single onchain transaction. From the outside, it would look like a normal "Someone sent some coins from address A to address B" transaction. But internally, a key needed to spend the funds is only valid if the company and all of its suppliers sign it. This means every time there is a transaction…

> the latest state will go on chain

You'll need to have a revocation mechanism to punish older states being put on chain. That may not be so simple when (many) more than 2 parties are involved.

> Or it could be "BMW did ten thousand transactions with its suppliers". You don't know.

Amounts are still visible as well as number of entities paid by the settlement. Recipients may become identifiable through follow-up transactions or re-use of known public keys.

> And all of the transactions were free

All but the initial funding tx and the final settlement tx.

Re: Taproot, Bitcoin’s long-anticipated upgrade, has activated

#14

Post by TekMol »

teekert wrote: post #12
TekMol wrote: post #6

A crazy thing with Taproot is: A company could create a virtual bank to handle all transfers with its suppliers by doing a single onchain transaction. From the outside, it would look like a normal "Someone sent some coins from address A to address B" transaction. But internally, a key needed to spend the funds is only valid if the company and all of its suppliers sign it. This means every time there is a transaction…

"And all of the transaction were free", Wait? Since when are transactions free and instant? Is that part of this upgrade? The only costs are with the "bank transaction"?

A second layer transaction does not involve the Bitcoin network.

When Katy wants to pay ₿3 to Billie, Katy just sends a key (via email or some API) to Billie which enables Billie to withdraw ₿3 from the account of Katy. But Billie does not do that. Billie just keeps that message like you keep your login to your bank account.

When Katy wants to pay another ₿5 to Billie, Katy sends a key to Billie which enables Billie to withdraw ₿8 from the account of Katy.

Now Katy paid Billie ₿8 in two transactions. All via email, letter, telephone or - most likely - API. Nothing at all happened on the Bitcoin network.

Re: Taproot, Bitcoin’s long-anticipated upgrade, has activated

#15

Post by cblconfederate »

nanna wrote: post #2

When will BTC move to an energy efficient protocol?

To me, the fact that bitcoin is so inefficient means that a government cannot coopt it because it would be politically untenable. That's trading a bad thing for a good thing

Ultimately though, side chains with various insured instruments (aka banks) will prevail due to their ease-of-use, and most real-world transactions will use unstable side coins (aka fiat currency).

Re: Taproot, Bitcoin’s long-anticipated upgrade, has activated

#16

Post by TekMol »

tromp wrote: post #13
TekMol wrote: post #6

A crazy thing with Taproot is: A company could create a virtual bank to handle all transfers with its suppliers by doing a single onchain transaction. From the outside, it would look like a normal "Someone sent some coins from address A to address B" transaction. But internally, a key needed to spend the funds is only valid if the company and all of its suppliers sign it. This means every time there is a transaction…

> the latest state will go on chain You'll need to have a revocation mechanism to punish older states being put on chain. That may not be so simple when (many) more than 2 parties are involved. > Or it could be "BMW did ten thousand transactions with its suppliers". You don't know. Amounts are still visible as well as number of entities paid by the settlement. Recipients may become identifiable through follow-up tran…

Yes, it will probably take years before we all settle on standardized ways of doing these things. But in theory, they are possible now.

Yes, the initial tx and the final tx will provide data for forensic analysis.

Yes, the initial and final tx need some time to settle (something like an hour) and cost some money (something like a few dollars at current rates).

Re: Taproot, Bitcoin’s long-anticipated upgrade, has activated

#17

Post by javert »

saalweachter wrote: post #8
capableweb wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't the right question be "Will BTC move to an energy efficient protocol?". As far as I know, there is no plans from the Bitcoin developers to move away from Proof of Work, but I'd be happy to be corrected.

I believe the simple answer is "when BTC stakeholders stand to lose money by not moving away from PoW".

You can't move bitcoin off proof of work. You can fork it, and the fork can become more dominant, but the fork won't be bitcoin. Similarly for changing the 21M coin limit. Bitcoin is an idea, not a democracy.

Re: Taproot, Bitcoin’s long-anticipated upgrade, has activated

#18

Post by cblconfederate »

Mistletoe wrote: post #11
nanna wrote: post #2

When will BTC move to an energy efficient protocol?

It will never. Best option is just invest in Ethereum which has Proof of Stake (not energy-intensive) coming next year. The changeover to it being the top coin is inevitable. It only needs to double its market cap right now to do so, which isn’t that difficult in something as wild as crypto. And I say that without bias and I’m about 80/20 BTC/ETH right now. I think the coming months may be the last hurrah for BTC. Th…

It's not jsut maximalists, every day people will tell you that the richest people invariably create cartels and it ends up badly. This time is not different

Re: Taproot, Bitcoin’s long-anticipated upgrade, has activated

#19

Post by rawtxapp »

One of the most interesting things in this experiment was the speedy trial imo. We now have an agreed way to change/improve consensus rules. It's very difficult to get a handful of people to agree on something, let alone all the different participants in this global/borderless system.
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