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Sweden no longer stands out in pandemic, says architect of ‘no lockdown’ policy

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Re: Sweden no longer stands out in pandemic, says architect of ‘no lockdown’ policy

#181

Post by dang »

MeinBlutIstBlau wrote: post #5

Halting an economy to the point of economic depression levels (early on) for the sake of people who were already vulnerable (look at the US, lockdowns but people still left the house cause duh...groceries and jobs) was a dumb idea. The government was trying to play god with it's citizens and they couldn't even police simple things like "stay at home" orders. So what was the point in even shutting down everything and…

Since you've continued to use HN for political/ideological flamewar and ignored our requests to stop, I've banned this account. Please don't create accounts to break HN's rules with.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29217024.

Re: Sweden no longer stands out in pandemic, says architect of ‘no lockdown’ policy

#182

Post by [deleted] »

MeinBlutIstBlau wrote: post #5

Halting an economy to the point of economic depression levels (early on) for the sake of people who were already vulnerable (look at the US, lockdowns but people still left the house cause duh...groceries and jobs) was a dumb idea. The government was trying to play god with it's citizens and they couldn't even police simple things like "stay at home" orders. So what was the point in even shutting down everything and…

[deleted]

Re: Sweden no longer stands out in pandemic, says architect of ‘no lockdown’ policy

#183

Post by thom »

kcplate wrote: post #145
wk_end wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These sort of “over sensitive PCR tests”, “died with not of” claims are silly. You start peeling away at them even a little - why are hospitals overwhelmed? Why are there so many excess deaths? - and any explanations start becoming conspiratorial (“there’s no actual overwhelmed hospital, it’s all fearmongering from the media”) or completely implausible (“hundreds of thousands of excess deaths, in numbers that line up…

My prediction—-when this point in time is measured 20 years from now, I suspect we are going to see that the excess deaths measured 2020-2025 are not going to be dramatically higher compared to 2014-2019 (at least as high as people today anticipate. There will be some, but Covid seems to be extremely skillful at killing people early who were statistically likely to die in the coming 5 years.

Can we agree that losing millions of years of human lives is a bad thing though?

Re: Sweden no longer stands out in pandemic, says architect of ‘no lockdown’ policy

#184

Post by refurb »

bryans wrote: post #177
refurb wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.worldscapitalcities.com/capital-facts-for-stockh... ” Population density is concentrated within Stockholm including its immediately surrounding urban area, averaging 11,802 people per square mile (4,279 per square kilometer).” Clearly I’m the one spreading disinformation. Looking at city to city (Singapore is a city state) the density differences are minor. And in in terms of suicides they were up 13% in…

Sure, we can compare city to city, but the comparison instantly falls apart, because that peak urban density is still nearly HALF of Singapore's entire density. There is no universe in which 50% is considered a "minor" difference, and that's STILL pretending the rest of Sweden doesn't even exist. That is the definition of an apples-to-oranges argument. In regards to the suicides, you just referenced an individual's p…

Wow! You sure back down quickly. You originally said we should use Sweden's 25 people/sq km and now you're willing to concede that in reality it's half? And sorry, but Singapore and Stockholm have the same population density in terms of order of magnitude.

Come on man. Just admit you were wrong.

Re: Sweden no longer stands out in pandemic, says architect of ‘no lockdown’ policy

#185

Post by bryans »

refurb wrote: post #184
bryans wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, we can compare city to city, but the comparison instantly falls apart, because that peak urban density is still nearly HALF of Singapore's entire density. There is no universe in which 50% is considered a "minor" difference, and that's STILL pretending the rest of Sweden doesn't even exist. That is the definition of an apples-to-oranges argument. In regards to the suicides, you just referenced an individual's p…

Wow! You sure back down quickly. You originally said we should use Sweden's 25 people/sq km and now you're willing to concede that in reality it's half? And sorry, but Singapore and Stockholm have the same population density in terms of order of magnitude. Come on man. Just admit you were wrong.

Are you kidding me right now? You suggested we use the densest part of Sweden as a comparison, which is not how comparisons actually work, but I humored you anyway -- and it's still nearly HALF, which makes it not even comparable. So even when you unfairly nit-pick a particular region of Sweden, you're still completely wrong in all of your assertions. Your trolling is off the charts right now.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singapore

Total area: 728.6 km2

Density: 7,804/km2

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm

Urban area: 381.63 km2

Urban density: 4,200/km2

Metro area: 6,519 km2

Metro density: 370/km2

Re: Sweden no longer stands out in pandemic, says architect of ‘no lockdown’ policy

#186

Post by refurb »

bryans wrote: post #185
refurb wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow! You sure back down quickly. You originally said we should use Sweden's 25 people/sq km and now you're willing to concede that in reality it's half? And sorry, but Singapore and Stockholm have the same population density in terms of order of magnitude. Come on man. Just admit you were wrong.

Are you kidding me right now? You suggested we use the densest part of Sweden as a comparison, which is not how comparisons actually work, but I humored you anyway -- and it's still nearly HALF, which makes it not even comparable. So even when you unfairly nit-pick a particular region of Sweden, you're still completely wrong in all of your assertions. Your trolling is off the charts right now. https://en.wikipedia.or…

Half the density is "not even comparable"? You're not even arguing in good faith. You've just been proven wrong and now you're moving the goalposts and trying again.

My point was nothing more than the density is not that different, and your numbers show that.

Re: Sweden no longer stands out in pandemic, says architect of ‘no lockdown’ policy

#187

Post by bryans »

refurb wrote: post #186
bryans wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you kidding me right now? You suggested we use the densest part of Sweden as a comparison, which is not how comparisons actually work, but I humored you anyway -- and it's still nearly HALF, which makes it not even comparable. So even when you unfairly nit-pick a particular region of Sweden, you're still completely wrong in all of your assertions. Your trolling is off the charts right now. https://en.wikipedia.or…

Half the density is "not even comparable"? You're not even arguing in good faith. You've just been proven wrong and now you're moving the goalposts and trying again. My point was nothing more than the density is not that different, and your numbers show that .

This is so far beyond ridiculous at this point. Everything you say is the opposite of reality and with the direction intention of gaslighting and causing chaos. You are a troll of the highest order, and I'm honestly not sure why you're allowed to pull this kind of shit on HN.

Re: Sweden no longer stands out in pandemic, says architect of ‘no lockdown’ policy

#188

Post by refurb »

bryans wrote: post #187
refurb wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Half the density is "not even comparable"? You're not even arguing in good faith. You've just been proven wrong and now you're moving the goalposts and trying again. My point was nothing more than the density is not that different, and your numbers show that .

This is so far beyond ridiculous at this point. Everything you say is the opposite of reality and with the direction intention of gaslighting and causing chaos. You are a troll of the highest order, and I'm honestly not sure why you're allowed to pull this kind of shit on HN.

Seems like you're the one gaslighting.

The entire point I was making was that despite a very strict lockdown, Singapore is seeing really significant case numbers and deaths and they still aren't through it yet. All of those things are true.

Once the total costs of lockdown are fully tallied, we may find out the return on those restrictions weren't as high as we thought they would be.

Re: Sweden no longer stands out in pandemic, says architect of ‘no lockdown’ policy

#189

Post by geofft »

MeinBlutIstBlau wrote: post #176
geofft wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The economy, as you know it, exists because government says, "Nope, we know best!" It is a survival of the fittest environment solely because the people in charge of the government don't want Star Trek socialism. It is true that the majority of COVID deaths are among the population that one government called "life unworthy of life." But the decision to let them die off for the greater good is, itself, a form of sayin…

Sweden did and theyre fine...

My point is simply that Sweden chose a response. You are absolutely welcome to argue that they chose a better response than what others chose, that they served the greater good for cheaper, that the surviving Swedes are happier. But everyone - most especially the Swedish government ministers who made that choice - will tell you that Sweden said, we think we know better, so we're doing this.

Re: Sweden no longer stands out in pandemic, says architect of ‘no lockdown’ policy

#190

Post by h0nd »

vladharbuz wrote: post #12
pedrocr wrote: post #3

There are several of these articles trying to redeem Sweden's choices. Here are the results versus their similar neighbors in deaths per million people[1]: Sweden 1478 Denmark 474 Finland 219 Norway 173 They're 3 to 8 times worse. They now do compare favorably to Portugal for example at 1796. When did Portugal have the huge spike in deaths that propelled it in front of Sweden? When it decided not to do lockdowns, eve…

I would love it if we could get such clear-cut results from the numbers, and just be able to say “this strategy is good, if we do that everything will be fine” (not saying you're saying that), but I really don't think that's the case. Here in Switzerland, we had plenty of lockdowns, followed the scientific wisdom and so on, and we're at 1375 deaths per million. The UK has shifted strategies around a bunch, but they h…

You should not compare the numbers of deaths that may or may not be caused by covid, but the absolute number of deaths.
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