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There may be a steep privacy cost if you park here

latimes.com

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Re: There may be a steep privacy cost if you park here

#231

Post by imgabe »

lostdog wrote: post #131
imgabe wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course it makes a difference. If you want to protest the parking scheme and you complain to Trader Joe’s you won’t get anywhere, because they have nothing to do with it. They’re only mentioned because they’re a popular store and will draw clicks. It’s a sleazy and dishonest tactic. Trader Joe’s isn’t responsible for the scheme, nor is it limited to that particular Trader Joe’s. It’s a service that’s used at many d…

> If you want to protest the parking scheme and you complain to Trader Joe’s you won’t get anywhere TJ does care that it's customers want to come to the store, and they do have some power during lease negotiations. Making it bad PR for Trader Joes really is a good way to exerting pressure to get the landlord's rule changed. For this specific parking garage, the TJ is the most major tenant, so they would have the most…

Since they’re already in the space, they’ve already agreed to a lease. Maybe in 10 years when their lease is up for renewal, they can try to negotiate that, but it’s very unlikely they can do anything about it now.

The appropriate place to complain would be the landlord. TJ’s didn’t choose the parking vendor and likely has no say.

Re: There may be a steep privacy cost if you park here

#232

Post by 01100011 »

MBCook wrote: post #171
34679 wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe the other person was talking about having the devices serve up webpage UIs, so you wouldn't need their specific app, just a browser. A lot of makers do this with their 3D printers and CNC machines, as it avoids the cost and hassle of installing a display on the machine. Two of the more popular ones, for those interested: octoprint.org cnc.js.org

You’re right. They were. My mistake. Personally I don’t like those either. I’ve experienced it with printers (which can only be configured initially via USB and some app), 3D printers (configured by putting an SD card in your computer), and other gizmos. They’re all a pain to deal with, especially if your WiFi details change or their IP does. Some others expect you to connect to THEIR Wi-Fi network instead. Which is…

At the time I was considering it, I figured there should be a dedicated protocol for serving things like this. Something simple, like a subset of bluetooth, with easy discoverability. Sort of like NFC perhaps. Something that you can implement with minimal software and hardware support. Obviously you risk the protocol dying and devices becoming bricks. I'm not sure how you avoid that.

Re: There may be a steep privacy cost if you park here

#233

Post by mitchdoogle »

dredmorbius wrote: post #219
34679 wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe the other person was talking about having the devices serve up webpage UIs, so you wouldn't need their specific app, just a browser. A lot of makers do this with their 3D printers and CNC machines, as it avoids the cost and hassle of installing a display on the machine. Two of the more popular ones, for those interested: octoprint.org cnc.js.org

And when the webpage is no longer updated? Heck, we've even seen that model simply to use goods you've purchased , as with digital restrictions malignant books, music, videos, and games, where the restrictions-management servers were discontinued and access to the goods (bads) bought requiring them became useless.

The device itself is serving up the webpage. It doesn't get updated. It's connected to the network and you visit the ip address or whatever

Re: There may be a steep privacy cost if you park here

#234

Post by mitchdoogle »

34679 wrote: post #111
MBCook wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What happens in two or three years when they decide to stop updating the app and it no longer works on your phone? They couldn’t bother since there was no recurring revenue stream so you just have to buy a new dishwasher?

I believe the other person was talking about having the devices serve up webpage UIs, so you wouldn't need their specific app, just a browser. A lot of makers do this with their 3D printers and CNC machines, as it avoids the cost and hassle of installing a display on the machine. Two of the more popular ones, for those interested: octoprint.org cnc.js.org

3d printers and CNC machines almost always involve using a computer anyway and good chance they are physically connected. Not the case with my washing machine or toaster

Re: There may be a steep privacy cost if you park here

#235

Post by mixmastamyk »

ac29 wrote: post #173
throwaway55421 wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cost of the rent is also added to prices the store charges. The rent close to a metro station is far higher and often "local" stores are much more expensive as a result. You could attempt to unbundle that by charging people an entry fee too. Why not itemise the electricity bill whilst you're at it, etc. It's penny pinching and adds friction. I've been to Trader Joe's, if you're going there you're not at all price…

> It's penny pinching and adds friction. I've been to Trader Joe's, if you're going there you're not at all price sensitive. At least where I live, Trader Joe's is probably the cheapest grocer that isn't explicitly a discount retailer like Grocery Outlet. Something like 80% of TJ products are house brands.

Indeed, not the absolute cheapest but sometimes half the price of our Albertsons.

Re: There may be a steep privacy cost if you park here

#236

Post by mixmastamyk »

secabeen wrote: post #208
GavinMcG wrote: post #4

I'm glad to see this framing. Reading the provisions identified in the article, you could easily react by saying "well, that's normal." Of course a parking app would ask for your vehicle's make/model and for your credit card information. But it is a cost, and the unrestrained use of that information is a further cost. And that's before you get into "need[ing] to monitor people’s unrelated web browsing and links they…

Is there even an app at all here? If you look at their screenshots, it's all just a website. When you "sign up", they don't send you to the Google or Apple app stores, just to their app.metropolis.io site. When you look at the privacy policy, everything I see there is in line with a somewhat lawyerly description of what every web server receives. IP Address, Carrier (in the rDNS or WHOIS of the IP), HTTP referrers, H…

It sounds like you’re not aware of the news in the last decade or so. Very little chance there is no data monetization going on. Would not be profitable without it.

Re: There may be a steep privacy cost if you park here

#237

Post by systemvoltage »

colonwqbang wrote: post #122
systemvoltage wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does LA Times have to do with parking app? Why this misdirection?

The LA times is the website behind the article linked in this thread. They are trying to frame this behaviour as a bad thing, but they treat their own readers exactly the same way.

The author of the article probably has no clue what the WebDev team at LA Times is doing or what the advertisement team is working on. Even if they do, they're totally a separate topic of discussion and has nothing to do with the content of the article.

Re: There may be a steep privacy cost if you park here

#238

Post by mixmastamyk »

rurp wrote: post #145
jcpst wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It makes me wonder, when I draw a line in the sand with a clerk, how often they just enter junk data into the system so they can get on with their shift.

Many years ago I worked as a cashier (at Trader Joes no less) and occasionally had to ask customers for this sort of information. I had zero problem just punching in fake data if the customer didn't want to provide it, and sometimes I just went ahead without asking, if the customer was clearly busy with a crazy kid/pet/whatever. Some cashiers were diligent about the data collection but many, probably most, had a simi…

What kind of data? I’ve had stores ask for telephone and said no but that’s about it.

Re: There may be a steep privacy cost if you park here

#239

Post by mixmastamyk »

diebeforei485 wrote: post #83

It's common in China and some parts of Europe that they just use a license plate reader camera to log the time you entered, and another one at exit In China you just scan a QR code from a screen to pay and leave, but I think that could be replaced with a credit card reader or contactless payment. I don't see why it requires downloading an app.

It’s not required, it’s for the benefit of a data collection business.
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