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Will real estate ever be normal again?

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Re: Will real estate ever be normal again?

#151

Post by listenallyall »

bufferoverflow wrote: post #123
uejfiweun wrote: post #45

The Fed at this point controls the whole economy and they have two options: 1. Raise interest rates and stop printing. Crazy inflation stops, but asset prices crash and we enter a major recession or depression. The end result will likely be unrest and blood in the streets. 2. Do nothing, keep printing. Inflation picks up massively. The economy keeps humming along but young people, including myself, are permanently pr…

We have tons of inflation-proof tools: stocks, gold (to an extent), cryptocurrencies. Just don't store your savings in cash ever. Ideally, get paid in one of the tools I listed.

Tell me you're under 30 without telling me you're under 30.

Re: Will real estate ever be normal again?

#152

Post by noahtallen »

syshum wrote: post #60
bumby wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you define “protecting” that thing? If it involves, for example, lobbying against high-density housing, that might be part of the problem.

" land, trees, and nice quality living." are mutually exclusive, High-Density housing is terrible and I NEVER want to live in a highly dense urban settings. My home in the suburbs with 1/2 acre lots is FAR FAR FAR too dense for me... I want less density than that, but newer subdivisions are dropping to 1/4 or 1/5 acre lots, it is terrible

One comment on this is that less dense areas make it very hard to build infrastructure. For example, if there are 10 families living on a mile stretch of road, think of how much it costs to build a mile of road, along with (possibly) water and sewer there. And then the annual maintenance cost. And then the other road networks require to connect that one road, etc.

Those 10 families don’t pay nearly enough in taxes to cover the cost of infrastructure maintenance. It relies on grants from state and federal governments, paid for by taxes in dense cities, to cover the expense.

My point: sparse is not objectively better. I think the quality of life we have come to expect in suburbs and rural areas is not possible without the taxes gained from also having dense places.

More info, and a very interesting video series here: https://youtu.be/7IsMeKl-Sv0

Re: Will real estate ever be normal again?

#153

Post by willis936 »

paulcole wrote: post #127
mesh wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems pretty simple, I can spend money to rent a place, and after 30 years (rent), have nothing to show for the money I put in, or I can buy a house (mortgage), spend money for 30 years, and then have an asset I own. Not to mention the freedom to do whatever you want to your home / house without having to ask for permission, or being in a position of putting money into an asset that you don't own.

I think people who parrot this line try to ignore the total cost of their mortgage being quite different from the purchase price of their home, property taxes, repairs, etc. As a lifelong renter, I’ve done quite well by keeping my rent low (my preference is studio/1-bedrooms in relatively dense urban areas) and putting extra money into the market. 30 years from when I started renting, I’ll have quite a lot to show fo…

Screw the apartment. You could save so much money living out of a van.

I honestly don't understand this line of thinking. "Why do people even want [tangible good]?"

If an explanation is really needed: it's nice to have a large, private space. People like cars in garages, a room for their work, a room to cook, a room to relax, a room to sleep, a room to store stuff, etc. Why do people bother with any of these things? Why isn't everyone a minimalist? Why do people even bother living?

It's bizarre and alien to me. It also misses the point that people are supposedly free to pursue happiness.

Re: Will real estate ever be normal again?

#154

Post by throwawayboise »

A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote: post #134
paulcole wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think people who parrot this line try to ignore the total cost of their mortgage being quite different from the purchase price of their home, property taxes, repairs, etc. As a lifelong renter, I’ve done quite well by keeping my rent low (my preference is studio/1-bedrooms in relatively dense urban areas) and putting extra money into the market. 30 years from when I started renting, I’ll have quite a lot to show fo…

It can be both, but in US real estate historically was seen as a good way to park money. I will venture to say that you are an outlier. I remember renting with my SO. The jumps in rent were getting onerous to the point, when it became cheaper for us to actually buy a place. But again, each situation varies. Before living with my now wife just like you I lived in a small apartment, because that was all I really needed…

Yes, as long as you start with a modest home that you can actually afford, it can work. The mortgage payment, including taxes and insurance, on my first home (a small 2-br bungalow) was hundreds of dollars less (monthly) than the 1-br shithole apartment I was renting (shithole because I was trying to save for a down payment). At that point, as long as home values do what they normally do, you can upsize every 5 years or so if needed until you are in a home that really fits, rolling the equity gain in the former house into a larger down payment on the newer house.

Mistakes people make: starting with too big a house where they are in trouble immediately if they miss a paycheck. Refinancing and taking equity out to spend on other "things" that depreciate or are consumables like boats, new cars, extravagant vacations, expensive furniture, etc.

Re: Will real estate ever be normal again?

#155

Post by danhak »

paulcole wrote: post #127
mesh wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems pretty simple, I can spend money to rent a place, and after 30 years (rent), have nothing to show for the money I put in, or I can buy a house (mortgage), spend money for 30 years, and then have an asset I own. Not to mention the freedom to do whatever you want to your home / house without having to ask for permission, or being in a position of putting money into an asset that you don't own.

I think people who parrot this line try to ignore the total cost of their mortgage being quite different from the purchase price of their home, property taxes, repairs, etc. As a lifelong renter, I’ve done quite well by keeping my rent low (my preference is studio/1-bedrooms in relatively dense urban areas) and putting extra money into the market. 30 years from when I started renting, I’ll have quite a lot to show fo…

This is a reasonable take but the government really does everything in its power to put its finger on the scale toward homeownership:

- up to $500,000 in tax-free capital gains for couples

- cheap leverage via low interest rates courtesy of the Fed and further subsidized by renters via mortgage interest deduction

- SALT deduction (albeit reduced as of 2017)

Re: Will real estate ever be normal again?

#156

Post by _3u10 »

themihai wrote: post #118
throwvirtever wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't quite understand the obsession with homeownership. If a large enough percentage of people rented from property management companies, there would be more impetus to have strong tenant's rights laws to protect residents, and people would have more flexibility to move around. Moreover everyone would have an interest in increasing supply to keep their own rent down, pushing prices down toward cost-of-materials an…

Some people don't like subscriptions...still prefer the old good way of owning things.

The classic HaaS model. Great lifestyle business. Easy to get debt financing at rock bottom low interest rates from VCs.

It’s completely no code, just post your place on Craigslist.

Re: Will real estate ever be normal again?

#157

Post by willis936 »

GoOnThenDoTell wrote: post #116
throwvirtever wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't quite understand the obsession with homeownership. If a large enough percentage of people rented from property management companies, there would be more impetus to have strong tenant's rights laws to protect residents, and people would have more flexibility to move around. Moreover everyone would have an interest in increasing supply to keep their own rent down, pushing prices down toward cost-of-materials an…

Sometimes you want to modify the property, renting precludes that

I'm not even 30 and have a strong desire for RO water and an EV. Nope, that is for a higher echelon of society.

Re: Will real estate ever be normal again?

#158

Post by [deleted] »

willis936 wrote: post #153
paulcole wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think people who parrot this line try to ignore the total cost of their mortgage being quite different from the purchase price of their home, property taxes, repairs, etc. As a lifelong renter, I’ve done quite well by keeping my rent low (my preference is studio/1-bedrooms in relatively dense urban areas) and putting extra money into the market. 30 years from when I started renting, I’ll have quite a lot to show fo…

Screw the apartment. You could save so much money living out of a van. I honestly don't understand this line of thinking. "Why do people even want [tangible good]?" If an explanation is really needed: it's nice to have a large, private space. People like cars in garages, a room for their work, a room to cook, a room to relax, a room to sleep, a room to store stuff, etc. Why do people bother with any of these things?…

[deleted]

Re: Will real estate ever be normal again?

#159

Post by throwawayboise »

GoOnThenDoTell wrote: post #116
throwvirtever wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't quite understand the obsession with homeownership. If a large enough percentage of people rented from property management companies, there would be more impetus to have strong tenant's rights laws to protect residents, and people would have more flexibility to move around. Moreover everyone would have an interest in increasing supply to keep their own rent down, pushing prices down toward cost-of-materials an…

Sometimes you want to modify the property, renting precludes that

Depends on the lease, but generally you're correct for residential rentals.

Re: Will real estate ever be normal again?

#160

Post by clairity »

vorpalhex wrote: post #139
clairity wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "1. Raise interest rates and stop printing. Crazy inflation stops, but asset prices crash and we enter a major recession or depression. The end result will likely be unrest and blood in the streets." no, blood and unrest is an unlikely end result of this scenario, though vested interests would really like us to think that. the more likely outcome is a redistribution of wealth toward the lower 99% (concomitantly wit…

Most of those 99% have retirements of some form or another, and have their wealth trapped in their house.

retirement savings don't affect day-to-day decisions or welfare, and most folks will not be selling their home, especially not in a recession, so those are both non sequiturs. long-term assets, particularly for the middle class, are relatively recession-resistant.
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