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Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

jacquesmattheij.com

611–620 of 626 posts

Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#611

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Hi Jake, I love this kind of response, all the armchair lawyering and other bs is just a huge distraction, there are exactly four comments in this whole thread including yours that are constructive. You mean the metal part joining the two sides of the fork? That's a great warning, I never thought of monitoring that bit in particular but now that you mention it that makes perfect sense, there is quite a bit of force o…

I looked up the names for the parts of the fork: It's the part of the fork called the dropout that fails. Here's a picture of a dropout itself: https://i.stack.imgur.com/VZ8bO.jpg , not mine. When it fails it may look exactly the same (you won't see anything wrong), if you take calipers to it, you'll notice the gap has widened. So measure it now and remeasure every once in a while. If it's changing you've got a probl…

I've got 2 1/4" on there right now, and those drop-out pads are massively overengineered on the Riese & Mueller bikes but I'll keep an eye on that anyway.

Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#612

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi Jake, I love this kind of response, all the armchair lawyering and other bs is just a huge distraction, there are exactly four comments in this whole thread including yours that are constructive. You mean the metal part joining the two sides of the fork? That's a great warning, I never thought of monitoring that bit in particular but now that you mention it that makes perfect sense, there is quite a bit of force o…

While I've never seen/heard of this happening, I suppose it's possible. I'd chalk it up to 2 issues: 1) possibly not tightening the quick release skewers quite enough 2) cheaper aluminum dropouts on the suspension lowers. One solid option is to purchase a thru-axle fork and wheel. They're becoming pretty much the standard across the cycling/mtb industry and you can even find rigid steel options ( https://surlybikes.c…

Good stuff, I've always been very kind to my bikes, avoid impact on the rims if I can (no kerb hopping, always aiming for the least impact if there is an obstacle on the road). Even so, with these bikes and the mileage they make (my brother wears out a frame every couple of years) it's probably a good idea to up the monitoring rate on the frame, especially at all the weld and high stress points. I've never had a frame fail - yet - in spite of many km on all kinds of bikes but that has also turned this into something of a blind spot so that warning is definitely a good one.

Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#613

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That sounds like an amazing thing you are doing there, do you have a write-up somewhere?

My velomobile plans? Not yet, but when I get a little further along I do plan to write about it publicly at some length (including during the build process, and after). It’s even going to have a trailer, built in part to house a digital piano (which will be a dozen kilograms or so well spent).

That sounds like a fantastic adventure in the works. I you want to have a person to bounce your ideas of feel free to contact me.

Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#614

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Finally, a constructive comment instead of a bunch of legal stuff and fantasy performance figures. Thank you very much, I'll look into this. edit: Hm, the power supply looks to be a LiPo pack, the other two options are no longer available. But very nicely executed kit, now to find a way to power it from a wall socket.

If you pair it with this ultracapacitor bank, you can power it with a regular lab bench power supply. https://www.keenlab.de/index.php/product/kweld-ultracapacito... That's what I did for a custom ~600Wh pack I made. From memory (that was ~3y ago) I've set the voltage to ~12V and amperage to 30A. If you weld super fast, you'll start to be rate limited by the capacitor charge rate, but then you can just slow down a bi…

Too late for this one but for sure there will be more and the capability to spotweld stuff is handy anyway. I already repaired a bunch of electric tool batteries as well as a series of Nikon camera batteries for a relative. Very useful skill this. Thanks again for the pointer.

Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#615

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It all helps, heat and fast charging are bad, charging to 100% and discharging to zero are also bad (100's of cycles vs thousands!). I salvaged a BMS from a borked battery to fool the Bosch system into thinking that it has a 'legit' battery, and yes, you need that chip, the CAN-BUS communications do all kinds of stuff such as report state-of-charge to the display, enable the high voltage bus and so on. Without that t…

Can you explain how much of a difference it is from non state of the art equipment? I don’t know much about electronic vehicles, I assumed that it was just power regulators, and it could be done on hardware like charging through an advanced IC charger. Basically if you replace the chip with another one, what is the greatest cost? Do you have that replacement might be mitigated through other means? Do firmware updates…

The Bosch BMS is a little wonder of engineering, the packs less so. It has a 32 bit NXP CPU, a separate battery managing chip, a bunch of FETs, a DC DC convertor and a battery balancer and whole slew of safety measures (both sw and hw) in a 40 x 60 mm board.

It's one of the most, if not the most impressive BMS I've seen for its size. The packs are a different matter, the engineering of the rear carrier ones is mediocre, the frame mounted ones much better and the PowerTubes are much better still, but far less service friendly.

So far I have not found a way to fool the motor/controller into wanting to play ball with anything other than the genuine article on the other side of the CAN bus.

The battery firmware can be upgraded, but you don't really need to, it just woks. The higher range is not recognized (the battery still reports the Ah capacity of the battery type it shipped with), but the %age state-of-charge is accurate and that's enough to ride by without further monitoring (it's displayed separately, and you have to do a little bit of mental arithmetic to work out how many km you can still go).

There is no loss of efficiency, the batteries are at the same voltage as the originals (and that is something that would instantly cause the BMS to brick itself).

Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#616
post #587

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The insurance is perfectly ok with a home made battery. And public workers will arrive on the scene when there is nothing but some charred trespa left of my build if it should ever catch fire. Which is why it's located where it is on my bike, because I lack confidence in my ability to build stuff ;) Note how the theme of safety has been paramount during this build, during the use and even in case of a crash or other…

I'll take your word for it because I'm on the other side of the planet but it just seems incongruent and illogical that replacing a component with another compatible part, mass produced and used all over will get your bike confiscated and invalidated but a totally custom one off with no real world test, certification, or such is fine. It just seems like bureacracy gone totally out of control. You take bicycles, possi…

> I saw nothing about shock and vibration design, no drop tests, no mention of short circuit tests, no thermal measurements taken during a controlled charge/discharge, no mention of arc flash considerations during your assembly

So, this is why this project took a couple of months instead of a few days. I don't just slap stuff together.

The pack is 9 layers, has two inner layers of foam to cushion shocks, is shrink wrapped twice, uses high density ABS spacers instead of glue the way other people build their packs (at the expense of some space), has the wiring very carefully routed so that shorts are not just unlikely but pretty much impossible. The 'inconsistent' welds problem was solved by the overkill method: where a manufacturer would use two welds I used six, trial welds on bad cells proved that I could not tear the cells from the welds without major damage to the cell structure, in other words: those welds are pretty solid. I also measured their internal resistance across all cell groups, and monitored each group during a pretty stressful charge/discharge cycle to see what would happen to the interconnects. On the electrical front there is thermal monitoring, voltage and current monitoring, short circuit protection, overcharge and undercharge protection.

That pack is safe, short of getting crushed.

Also, and in case you're not a aware of it, I built a one-off windmill, 5 meters in diameter, rated for 2.5 KW, had a couple of Canadian winter storms attempt to take it down but it survived everything, built an overhead crane, a computer controlled plasma cutter and owned a fair sized machine shop. I'm not your average DIY person, and spent probably more time on safety on this particular design than I did on anything else.

I would trust this pack over a manufactured one, including the ones that Bosch puts out. I didn't do a drop test but that's mostly because this is a one-off and a after a drop test I would simply discard the pack, there is no way to do that non-destructively with a battery this heavy. That said, I'm very sure that the pack inside the foam core would be fine (it's dimensioned for that) but the housing would crack for sure.

As for why the bike is still legal: type approval is mostly related to the drive train, the maximum power the motor can put out, the degree to which it amplifies the pedal input power and various cut-outs, the batteries are not subject to the type approval, you can buy and fit aftermarket batteries for many bikes.

That said, your concern is appreciated.

Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#617

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I lived in Beijing from 2007 to 2016. Commuters has mostly moved over to electric bikes, heck that trend was starting in 2002. Anyways, peddle bikes were most students who needed the, for on campus transportation. But if you spend any time on the commuter bike lanes around the city, it’s 80% electric. This is a huge change from my first trip in 1999, when you had huge rivers of bike traffic, and gas powered non-car v…

There are plenty of rideshare bikes scattered throughout Beijing, although many seem to be either unused or broken.

Those are now mostly E-bikes, though (as far as I can tell in Chaoyang, at least).

Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#618
post #193

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Why would classification come first? That's entirely backwards. Surely we should understand what characteristics of a vehicle make it safe or unsafe, and then build the classifications around that to legislate against. If both are the same safety, why make one illegal? It seems like a law which restricts liberty for no reason (other than legislative convenience, or because 'the government decided to tie it in with pe…

Classification comes first because that's what governments need in order to split traffic into different sets so they can create an environment that works for everybody. S-pedelecs, and e-bikes are a new development and so fall between the cracks. Riding them on the bike paths may endanger other cyclists, riding them on the main roads endangers the users of the s-pedelecs and e-bikes. There isn't really a 'third clas…

Eh, personally I don’t agree - classification is only useful if we are classifying the vehicles together to solve a problem for legislative purposes.

If we classify stuff together and then ask what legislation we want to enact it’s clearly backwards.

This is why in UK law at least classifications are generally tied into specific bits of legislation (ie definitions).

Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#619

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I didn't see it as absurd at all - there is a huge contingent of bicyclists who should never be on a sidewalk, while at the same time there are massive numbers of casual e-cyclists who should never be riding in traffic. Ann Arbor recently changed it's laws to reflect that - and I think the cyclists who are aware they shouldn't be on sidewalks, and the e-cyclists who stick only to the sidewalks know who they are.

Sidewalks? You don't seem to have the first clue about what you are trying to comment on. The only bikes that belong on sidewalks are those ridden by very young kids, and indeed that is the law in much of the world.

In many neighborhoods in California, unless you are a serious cyclist, you genuinely run the risk of being run off the road by a driver in some areas, and will absolutely be yelled at or honked at if you take your "bicycle" (E-Bike or otherwise) onto the road with other vehicles. In 5+ years living in Redwood City, I rarely ever saw what I would call "Utility Cyclists" (Just some person trying to get to their job, or get to the grocery store) ever ride a bicycle on the road.

Ann Arbor changed the law to make this legal: http://www.annarbor.com/news/bicyclists-dilemma-ride-on-the-....

And recently for E-Bikes as well: https://www.mlive.com/news/ann-arbor/2021/09/ann-arbor-movin....

And yes, I know that California law states that bicycles have to be on the road, but that doesn't reflect reality. And, in fact, at least in Redwood City, I never once (In 5 years of walking every day, and seeing dozens of cyclists every day) saw a police officer cite a cyclist for riding on the sidewalk - though, that isn't the case in Southern California, where I read an NYT article that people of color are routinely stopped/searched for doing so - in much the same way people are cited in some cities for "Jay Walking" - which is a universally accepted behavior in other cities.

But, one thing I think you and I can agree on, that cyclists on the sidewalk have to show the utmost in courtesy to pedestrians, and not go racing along at high (> 8mph or so) speeds - essentially occupy the same speed as your typical jogger might. Also, another topic we might agree on - Bicycle Lanes just make things safer for everyone, cyclist and pedestrian alike.

Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#620

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the ebikes I'm familiar with cannot travel at top speed all day. more like slightly more than an hour.

OK, but there are endless numbers of e-bike idiots. Super-athletes doesn't scale like that.

fair point, can't argue with that.
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