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Will real estate ever be normal again?

nytimes.com

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Re: Will real estate ever be normal again?

#21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why don't you move to a cheaper place/smaller city? I don't understand why there are some many homeless people in big cities (i.e NYC). If people would just move to cheaper areas/cities the whole issue of housing would be fixed.

My community is here. How is it just that I be forced into exile because “the market” says so? I’ve done no wrong.

What you did wrong was not keep up economically with the average earnings of those in your community. The market believes that you are not productive enough to live where you currently do. Capitalists believe that you must turn the other cheek for the invisible hand of the free market...

Re: Will real estate ever be normal again?

#22
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see your point. However, isn't it still preferable to have a home and leave your community, then to have the community but be on the street? I personally would prefer moving to homelessness, many times over, even though I wouldn't say it was fair/desirable/justice that I needed to.

The choice of location is rarely as clear cut or stark as the choice between simply community vs homelessness. For many people, the choice of location involves weighing many competing and hard-to-quantify intangibles and opportunity costs.

Right, but I personally don’t see a scenario where living on the street doesn’t trump every single one of those other factors.

In other words, anything that involves me living on the street is a complete non-starter, regardless of how compelling the other factors are.

I get that some people really don’t have the option to just move somewhere cheaper. But if that’s at all a possibility, it seems like that should be a no brainier

Re: Will real estate ever be normal again?

#23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why don't you move to a cheaper place/smaller city? I don't understand why there are some many homeless people in big cities (i.e NYC). If people would just move to cheaper areas/cities the whole issue of housing would be fixed.

My community is here. How is it just that I be forced into exile because “the market” says so? I’ve done no wrong.

How is it you've fallen so far behind the rest of your community's median income?

Re: Will real estate ever be normal again?

#24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why don't you move to a cheaper place/smaller city? I don't understand why there are some many homeless people in big cities (i.e NYC). If people would just move to cheaper areas/cities the whole issue of housing would be fixed.

My community is here. How is it just that I be forced into exile because “the market” says so? I’ve done no wrong.

My view is one shaped by a family of immigrants. In the end life isn't about right or wrong or morals or ethics. It just is. Much of it is out of an individuals control and never was or will be. All you can do is control how YOU react to those factors. You can complain about them and get ground into powder, or you can adjust to make your own life better.

Re: Will real estate ever be normal again?

#25

Renters and buyers are increasingly in the same boat - the one where people with money in the bank are finding there's nowhere to live. In the case of renters, many with savings are facing homelessness - once those savings are burned up on hotels. This isn't a dramatization or overstatement. It's what I'm witnessing personally and very nearly happened to us. We were one of the few to beat long odds and score a place…

Why don't you move to a cheaper place/smaller city? I don't understand why there are some many homeless people in big cities (i.e NYC). If people would just move to cheaper areas/cities the whole issue of housing would be fixed.

I wonder if there could be an evaporative cooling like effect in play here? That is, everyone who is willing to move has already moved; as a result, the remaining population biases towards those unwilling to move.

Re: Will real estate ever be normal again?

#26

Renters and buyers are increasingly in the same boat - the one where people with money in the bank are finding there's nowhere to live. In the case of renters, many with savings are facing homelessness - once those savings are burned up on hotels. This isn't a dramatization or overstatement. It's what I'm witnessing personally and very nearly happened to us. We were one of the few to beat long odds and score a place…

Why don't you move to a cheaper place/smaller city? I don't understand why there are some many homeless people in big cities (i.e NYC). If people would just move to cheaper areas/cities the whole issue of housing would be fixed.

Because there are no jobs there.

Yes remote might fix that, eventually. But I strongly doubt that, especially as humans are social animals.[1]

However The UK is a more extreme version of this. People move to london because it has the most concentration of high paying jobs, and as a side effect culture (what that is I leave up to you. I don't just mean music, cinema and posh people shit.)

Now, I could move back to bumblefuck rural england, but I would have to exchange an underserved IT job market, with a median wage of >£60k to a once/two company town with a median wage of £38k. Combine that with houses only being 30% cheaper, and higher transport costs, no nurseries or comprehensive child care, the countryside can be a real pain in the tits.

Costs are higher in the countryside, as there are less public amenities.

So no, people can't just move, otherwise they would have done already.

[1] there are two classes of remote "influencers" the first ones seem to be happy working alone, permanently. The second appears to be the ones that are "jet setting" where they work in a new country every other month. Both of these groups represent a tiny minority. I strongly doubt that we should be optimising for these two noisy classes of people. I suspect, and me, my team and wider company data backs this us (even though its shallow evidence) that they more popular route is hybrid.

Re: Will real estate ever be normal again?

#27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why don't you move to a cheaper place/smaller city? I don't understand why there are some many homeless people in big cities (i.e NYC). If people would just move to cheaper areas/cities the whole issue of housing would be fixed.

Because there are no jobs there. Yes remote might fix that, eventually. But I strongly doubt that, especially as humans are social animals.[1] However The UK is a more extreme version of this. People move to london because it has the most concentration of high paying jobs, and as a side effect culture (what that is I leave up to you. I don't just mean music, cinema and posh people shit.) Now, I could move back to bum…

> Because there are no jobs there.

This is simply not true. There are a record number of job openings. I would go on to say that there has never been a time in history where finding a job was this easy.

https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/jolts.pdf

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/JTSJOL

"The number of job openings was little changed at 10.4 million on the last business day of September, the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics reported today"

Re: Will real estate ever be normal again?

#28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why don't you move to a cheaper place/smaller city? I don't understand why there are some many homeless people in big cities (i.e NYC). If people would just move to cheaper areas/cities the whole issue of housing would be fixed.

My community is here. How is it just that I be forced into exile because “the market” says so? I’ve done no wrong.

Yes, it is sucky to not be able to live where you like, but the attitude seems odd.

Why do you feel entitled to live at any particular location (that was not actually inherited)?

I've never felt it was my "right" to be able to afford any particular location and/or living standard at that location, and always noticed that it was a trade-off between costs, location, commute/travel times. Same whether it is in a resort town vs out in the styx, or in a major city downtown vs the suburbs/exurbs.

As long as I can remember, it's been that way - the workers in the fancy town couldn't afford to live there, unless a big crew got together to rent a house in town. Or, you were looking for a rent-controlled apt or sublet.

Just because you or I have done no wrong, does not mean that we are entitled to do what we want, where we want, when we want.

"... You can't always get what you want / But if you try sometime you just might find / You just might find / That you get what you need "

Welcome to the real world.

Re: Will real estate ever be normal again?

#29
It will change when people want it to change, just like workers' rights did over the last century.

If you don't want to pay a million quid for a house in London, refuse the game. Move elsewhere. Find a different way to get by in life, perhaps even a different country.

People won't do that, though. It's more likely, IMO, that the entire world becomes more feudalist again until there are few escape hatches.

But it'll ultimately be because people keep buying in. As long as people, en masse, continue to max bid housing (whether for rent or to buy) this situation will continue.

Re: Will real estate ever be normal again?

#30
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because there are no jobs there. Yes remote might fix that, eventually. But I strongly doubt that, especially as humans are social animals.[1] However The UK is a more extreme version of this. People move to london because it has the most concentration of high paying jobs, and as a side effect culture (what that is I leave up to you. I don't just mean music, cinema and posh people shit.) Now, I could move back to bum…

> Because there are no jobs there. This is simply not true. There are a record number of job openings. I would go on to say that there has never been a time in history where finding a job was this easy. https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/jolts.pdf https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/JTSJOL "The number of job openings was little changed at 10.4 million on the last business day of September, the U.S. Bureau of Labor S…

Presumably OP means a job in their profession, not employment generically.
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