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Apple buying Google ads for high-value subscription apps

forbes.com

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Re: Apple buying Google ads for high-value subscription apps

#41
post #28

How's this different than googling for a Lenovo laptop and seeing ads for Lenovo's website versus Amazon?

Lenovo doesn't have to sell through Amazon while HBO, Netflix, et. al. are forced to sell through Apple.

> Lenovo doesn't have to sell through Amazon while HBO, Netflix, et. al. are forced to sell through Apple.

Except they aren't forced to sell through Apple, Netflix doesn't allow in app-purchases for this very reason.

Re: Apple buying Google ads for high-value subscription apps

#42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Money corrupts everything, it replaces the original motivation. If companies didn't have to maximize x% of the profit made on the investor's money per quarter/year, they will be able to focus on product/service, customer and employees more. It may result in less profit but it will be better for the society as a whole. We can see this happening when some company is acquired solely for sucking money out of it. Sometime…

"Money corrupts everything" BS. One of the only things Ayn Rand got right was her view of money: it is one of the greatest forces for good humans have ever invented. Money allows us to settle our disputes without violence; money is what enables peaceful trade; money is how we moved beyond palace economies. Sure, money can corrupt some things, but on the whole money has likely saved many lives and in all likelihood th…

I agree with you to a certain extent, also I didn't mean to disregard the value that money provides by giving us a way to assign a quantifiable value to things. That's entirely different and in that way it can be counted as one of the greatest innovations in human history.

I was talking about the human greed that is exploited by money.

Also, if you're going to fight a war with another country, money doesn't mean much does it? Unless you have a global currency that both sides can agree on. Ultimately wars were fought for resources (Non ideological ones). Money is just paper/coins which you can print anytime you want if you control the resources.

Re: Apple buying Google ads for high-value subscription apps

#44
Just outbid Apple by paying Google 24% of your gross income, likely >50% of your profit (assuming Apple has 6% payment processing/gift card and bandwidth costs; from the Epic trial we know Google has 6% costs).

Apple's cost is probably significantly less here as it is a small app and most of the bandwidth is in the streaming, which Apple doesn't help with.

Re: Apple buying Google ads for high-value subscription apps

#45

It's actually an interesting question how nefarious or harmful this actually is. We obviously know why Apple is doing it and why the apps in question don't like it. But a couple things occurred to me: You could view this like Amazon giving away your book or android app in a promotion. As I understand it, they still pay the author as if it were a sale, so the author seemingly has nothong to complain about. Even that s…

I run a big portfolio of mobile apps, and the discussion around this is misguided. It's not about Apple taking 30% of the revenue generated from these ads.

It's about Apple driving up the user acquisition costs for these companies so much so that it become entirely uneconomical for them to buy ads that direct users to their own websites, and instead the campaigns that target users to download the app - which results in 30%-to-Apple IAP subscriptions - become much more attractive again. So Apple is trying to make the cost of running these ads so prohibitive to the companies that they stop trying to drive web subscriptions and instead go back to driving app subscriptions only, where Apple gets 30% of everything.

As you can see it's even more sinister than it first appears - it's not a short term land grab, it's a long term strategy to prevent developers from legitimately acquiring users outside of Apple’s walled garden.

(Looking at the economics make this even more clear. Let's say Tinder has a $100 subscriber LTV (lifetime value). If the user purchases the subscription in the app, Apple takes $30 of that, so if Tinder wants to run a marketing campaign on Google, Facebook, etc that drives an app install, they can't pay more than $70, otherwise their spend has a negative margin.

On the other hand, if tinder can use these ads to get people to subscribe on the Tinder website, they have a ~$97 LTV ($100 minus 3% payment processing fee via stripe/adyen/etc). So now they can run a campaign on Google where they can spend up to $97 to acquire a user, much more than the $70 before. And because Google and Facebook inventory availability scales non-linearly with your maximum bid, a 38% increase in acquisition cost allowable could mean a 100% increase in available inventory, and potentially higher quality inventory at that.

But if Apple - with their unlimited cash pile and not caring about negative margins - comes in and soaks up all this inventory by bidding the same $97 for every user, all of a sudden the cost for Tinder to acquire these users goes way up and becomes negative margin. At that point, the rationale thing for tinder to do is stop running these campaigns. This means they stop getting web subscriptions, stop diversifying their business away from Apple, and Apple maintains its iron grip on Tinder.

Remember, in this case Apple is paying $97 to acquire a user who will generate $30 for them (30% of the $100 LTV), so they're massively in the hole on this spend. But they don't care because their goal isn't to profitably acquire users; their goal is to make the costs for Tinder to create a more diversified business so high that Tinder stops trying to. That's some f-ed up sh*t.

Re: Apple buying Google ads for high-value subscription apps

#46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

can you explain to me this attitude, which i see a lot? Obviously the entire reason for a companys' existence is to make money why should we expect anything else? Also this is true for every company in history. Of course we must demand companies meet minimum moral standards such as not using slaves (which would be unthinkable today in 2021 cough ) but those must be imposed on them by law. This is a genuine question p…

Money corrupts everything, it replaces the original motivation. If companies didn't have to maximize x% of the profit made on the investor's money per quarter/year, they will be able to focus on product/service, customer and employees more. It may result in less profit but it will be better for the society as a whole. We can see this happening when some company is acquired solely for sucking money out of it. Sometime…

Steve Jobs certainly never did anything because of money. The iPhone is just his gift to the masses.

Re: Apple buying Google ads for high-value subscription apps

#48
Ruthless move by Apple - but brands like HBO should just take Netflix's queue and not allow in-app purchases.

I was actually surprised to learn some of the app native brands mentioned (Tinder, Bumble) even had a way to sign-up for a subscription outside of the app. Seems like they would actually benefit from apple placing adds.

Re: Apple buying Google ads for high-value subscription apps

#49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Money corrupts everything" BS. One of the only things Ayn Rand got right was her view of money: it is one of the greatest forces for good humans have ever invented. Money allows us to settle our disputes without violence; money is what enables peaceful trade; money is how we moved beyond palace economies. Sure, money can corrupt some things, but on the whole money has likely saved many lives and in all likelihood th…

Money is nothing but a sophisticated barter system. Instead of “I will give you 3 apples from my tree for a dozen eggs from your hens”, there is an indirection through a standardized property - money. Now we can say my apples are worth 4 shekels each and your eggs are worth 1 shekel each, and we can still agree on the same transaction. The difference (some would argue, improvement) is that shekels have a worth of the…

>Money is nothing but a sophisticated barter system.

I think we are all in agreement there. But it has such sophistication and is so amazingly efficient that it has an intrinsic value as a mere concept. This is because it enables activities that would otherwise be impossible. A good analogy would be a computer program. This i think is where we differ. But i think it's obvious that money is more than "nothing"- after all it sustains the entire banking industry.

>The difference (some would argue, improvement) is that shekels have a worth of their own, so can be stored against harder times

Again this isn't (and was never) the true reason for money. It was only a security against the money and helped people to visualise the concept better (i know i'm oversimplifying but i think that's the basic idea)

Re: Apple buying Google ads for high-value subscription apps

#50

It's actually an interesting question how nefarious or harmful this actually is. We obviously know why Apple is doing it and why the apps in question don't like it. But a couple things occurred to me: You could view this like Amazon giving away your book or android app in a promotion. As I understand it, they still pay the author as if it were a sale, so the author seemingly has nothong to complain about. Even that s…

I run a big portfolio of mobile apps, and the discussion around this is misguided. It's not about Apple taking 30% of the revenue generated from these ads. It's about Apple driving up the user acquisition costs for these companies so much so that it become entirely uneconomical for them to buy ads that direct users to their own websites, and instead the campaigns that target users to download the app - which results…

Unlike predatory pricing, you can’t really price people out of this permanently.

Tinder in this example is still getting the customer. Google is still getting paid.

So the moment Apple stops buying the ads, they’re both ready to participate again. So how is it a long term play?

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