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Sweden no longer stands out in pandemic, says architect of ‘no lockdown’ policy

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Re: Sweden no longer stands out in pandemic, says architect of ‘no lockdown’ policy

#101

Post by skeeter2020 »

syshum wrote: post #62
BoxOfRain wrote: post #18

>“Now, we’re two years into this and Sweden doesn’t really stand out. We’re not the best, but we’re definitely not the worst. That’s what I hear now: how much good did all these draconian [measures] do for anybody?” Whatever your stance on the merits of lockdowns, I think this is a question that very much needs asking and analysing objectively. Sadly I suspect that too many political careers are at stake across the b…

Objectivity seems to be the biggest causality of COVID... The vast majority of people have "picked a side" and will use any data they deem to be advantage to their side to highlight how they were right, and ignore any data that disproves their side. This is true for both the "science" class and the political class. "Trust the science" has become a "Trust the science that agrees with my worldview, ignore the rest" For…

> Trust the science"

I find this statement, which we hear ad infinitum from every direction, to be indistigushable from "trust in god". This "Science" thing is the new faith.

Re: Sweden no longer stands out in pandemic, says architect of ‘no lockdown’ policy

#102

Post by irthomasthomas »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #95
irthomasthomas wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The source was correct and corroborated by the other two sources I gave, The British Medical Journal and the UK Government.

Read them. More journalists and broken links. No data. No corroboration, not from those sources cited.

I have no idea what you are talking about. The facts I stated are not in dispute and can easily be verified by official sources. I even cited the UK government. What precisely do you disagree with?

Re: Sweden no longer stands out in pandemic, says architect of ‘no lockdown’ policy

#103

Post by randomopining »

rkk3 wrote: post #86
pedrocr wrote: post #3

There are several of these articles trying to redeem Sweden's choices. Here are the results versus their similar neighbors in deaths per million people[1]: Sweden 1478 Denmark 474 Finland 219 Norway 173 They're 3 to 8 times worse. They now do compare favorably to Portugal for example at 1796. When did Portugal have the huge spike in deaths that propelled it in front of Sweden? When it decided not to do lockdowns, eve…

Here are the results comparing NY Deaths per Million to a "similar" neighbor in the North East [1] New York 2920 Vermont 620 They are 5 times worse! New York's decision to have a more urban population is completely unjustifiable. [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109011/coronavirus-covi...

Densest city in the US. Thus Massive spread at beginning of pandemic. Durr.

Re: Sweden no longer stands out in pandemic, says architect of ‘no lockdown’ policy

#104

Post by mongol »

mattmanser wrote: post #74
pedrocr wrote: post #3

There are several of these articles trying to redeem Sweden's choices. Here are the results versus their similar neighbors in deaths per million people[1]: Sweden 1478 Denmark 474 Finland 219 Norway 173 They're 3 to 8 times worse. They now do compare favorably to Portugal for example at 1796. When did Portugal have the huge spike in deaths that propelled it in front of Sweden? When it decided not to do lockdowns, eve…

Which again is cherry picking as you're not comparing them to the country over, or two steps away. Many of which had exactly the same death rate per 100,000 and did lock down. And the countries you're comparing them to are much smaller population wise. And worse still, a lot of the cases in Sweden earlier doors were brought back by holidayers in Spain, a popular Swedish holiday location apparently, which is exactly w…

Of course Norway and Finland have flights to Spain!

Re: Sweden no longer stands out in pandemic, says architect of ‘no lockdown’ policy

#105

Post by skeeter2020 »

jimmaswell wrote: post #23
paganel wrote: post #17

Netherlands has just imposed lockdown measures even though they're more than 80% vaccinated, I wonder at what point are we going to call this bluff, and I say this as a vaccinated person (including the booster shot).

It's such a political thing that many people are going to support government measures and wear masks at family gatherings for the rest of their lives. I wouldn't be surprised if some things like masks at the post office last forever at this point regardless of necessity.

We're still living with the outcome of 9/11 and the security theatre you experience everytime you travel; Covid has been far more imnpactful and we're already seeing eternal "amber health states" that I don't see ever disappearing.

Re: Sweden no longer stands out in pandemic, says architect of ‘no lockdown’ policy

#106

Post by vaxmyass »

Anyone who ordered lockdowns, vax mandates, vax passes, mask mandates should be executed.

We need live executions on prime tv of all the FASCIST TYRANICAL governors and mayors that showed humanity's worst.

They need to be publicly executed to show the world that we will not tolerate this behavior.

What is particularly disgusting is that these same people won't even follow their own edicts.

SF Mayor London Breed has routinely flaunted her own masking mandates, most recently at the Getty Wedding.

CA Governor Gavin Newsom has repeatedly been caught inside without a mask and refuses to vaccinate one of his own daughters.

Nancy Pelosi, repeatedly violates the mask law, once again most recently at the Getty wedding.

All these politicians need their heads on staves.

Re: Sweden no longer stands out in pandemic, says architect of ‘no lockdown’ policy

#107

Post by vaxmyass »

dt3ft wrote: post #80
knuthsat wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm just completely astonished by the level of incompetence. I really can't imagine how human powered moon landing occurred and if it can occur under current leadership again. I don't really understand what happened in the last year? We got the vaccines at the beginning but why no new vaccines? Why no lifelong protection vaccines? Where are all of the incentives to accelerate the r&d of new ways to handle this? I mea…

Competent people are not working for the government. They choose private sector where they can earn a lot more. Start paying handsomely and maybe competent people will become interested. On top of earnings, there is also the issue of unreasonable demand. Did you know for example that some government agencies can not use productive software because of stupid policies imposed by incompetent regulating bodies?

You are right. Only criminals work for the government.

Re: Sweden no longer stands out in pandemic, says architect of ‘no lockdown’ policy

#109

Post by wk_end »

inpdx wrote: post #40
vladharbuz wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would love it if we could get such clear-cut results from the numbers, and just be able to say “this strategy is good, if we do that everything will be fine” (not saying you're saying that), but I really don't think that's the case. Here in Switzerland, we had plenty of lockdowns, followed the scientific wisdom and so on, and we're at 1375 deaths per million. The UK has shifted strategies around a bunch, but they h…

While I agree comparing countries can be apples and oranges, it makes sense to compare the Scandinavian countries. That Norway and Finland were much lower strongly suggests Sweden's strategies worsened things.

What’s frustrating is that the people who insist you should only compare Sweden to its Scandinavian peers are the same who insist that the US or Europe should use have used remote islands in the Pacific as their pandemic model.

This goes the other way too, of course - people who are keen to compare Sweden to the UK instead of Denmark cry foul whenever New Zealand is brought up.

The problem though is that there’s no bulletproof explanation for why lockdowns were so effective in the rest of Scandinavia and less so elsewhere in Europe (or many American states for that matter). Without that, the counterfactual is still a bit of a question mark. If Sweden had adopted Denmark’s strategy, maybe they would’ve indeed come out looking like Denmark - or maybe they would’ve come out looking like the UK. Vaguely gesturing towards “they’re all Scandinavian” doesn’t have much explanatory power.

Re: Sweden no longer stands out in pandemic, says architect of ‘no lockdown’ policy

#110

Post by hedora »

yxhuvud wrote: post #59
inpdx wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree comparing countries can be apples and oranges, it makes sense to compare the Scandinavian countries. That Norway and Finland were much lower strongly suggests Sweden's strategies worsened things.

Only if you assume the countries are similar in every other way that matter. But that is not the case, Sweden is for example by far the most urbanized country in Scandinavia - the share of people living in big or medium sized cities is 10% higher than other Scandinavian countries. Countries with high level of urbanisation have (so far, and especially early on) been hit way harder than more rural countries.

I’d be interested in seeing a scatter plot of excess mortality vs urbanization, income, single family housing, etc, etc. in one of these articles.

Without that, they seem pretty lazy, or designed to drive a political point regardless of the evidence.

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