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Sweden no longer stands out in pandemic, says architect of ‘no lockdown’ policy

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Re: Sweden no longer stands out in pandemic, says architect of ‘no lockdown’ policy

#61
post #3

There are several of these articles trying to redeem Sweden's choices. Here are the results versus their similar neighbors in deaths per million people[1]: Sweden 1478 Denmark 474 Finland 219 Norway 173 They're 3 to 8 times worse. They now do compare favorably to Portugal for example at 1796. When did Portugal have the huge spike in deaths that propelled it in front of Sweden? When it decided not to do lockdowns, eve…

I would love it if we could get such clear-cut results from the numbers, and just be able to say “this strategy is good, if we do that everything will be fine” (not saying you're saying that), but I really don't think that's the case. Here in Switzerland, we had plenty of lockdowns, followed the scientific wisdom and so on, and we're at 1375 deaths per million. The UK has shifted strategies around a bunch, but they h…

UK is a bad example to choose. They used the highest possible sensitivity setting on the PCR test, to the degree that no meaningful information could be extracted from them.

In addition, anyone who died, for any reason, at any time after a positive test, was recorded as a covid death. Even if they died in a car accident months after they had the test.

Sources:

Covid-19: The problems with case counting:

"What is a case? One issue in trying to interpret numbers of detected cases is that there is no set definition of a case. At the moment it seems that a polymerase chain reaction (PCR) positive result is the only criterion required for a case to be recognised. In any other disease we would have a clearly defined specification that would usually involve signs, symptoms, and a test result, .... “We are moving into a biotech world where the norms of clinical reasoning are going out of the window. A PCR test does not equal covid-19; it should not, but in some definitions it does." http://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3374.full

Why no one can ever recover from COVID-19 in England:

"A Department of Health and Social Care source said: ‘You could have been tested positive in February, have no symptoms, then hit by a bus in July and you’d be recorded as a COVID death.’” https://web.archive.org/web/20201012190837/https://www.cebm....

And my favourite... Sir Humphrey responds to the allegation of test inaccuracy...

"Positive test results at the limit of detection that occur late in the cycle of infection represent individuals with a low or very low risk of transmission, as a result of the decline in infectious virus production or remnants of viral RNA in respiratory secretions. The clinical significance of these positive results, at the limit of detection of the assay, are difficult to interpret in the absence of a clinical history and context. Possible reasons for the non-repeatability of these results include stochastic effects at the limit of detection of the assay, true prolonged low level detection of the virus, and very rarely, analytical errors in sample handling." https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/sars-cov-2-rna-te...

Re: Sweden no longer stands out in pandemic, says architect of ‘no lockdown’ policy

#62

>“Now, we’re two years into this and Sweden doesn’t really stand out. We’re not the best, but we’re definitely not the worst. That’s what I hear now: how much good did all these draconian [measures] do for anybody?” Whatever your stance on the merits of lockdowns, I think this is a question that very much needs asking and analysing objectively. Sadly I suspect that too many political careers are at stake across the b…

Objectivity seems to be the biggest causality of COVID...

The vast majority of people have "picked a side" and will use any data they deem to be advantage to their side to highlight how they were right, and ignore any data that disproves their side.

This is true for both the "science" class and the political class.

"Trust the science" has become a "Trust the science that agrees with my worldview, ignore the rest"

For politicians that is expected for people that claim to be "scientists" that has become an alarming trend over the last 24 mos'

Re: Sweden no longer stands out in pandemic, says architect of ‘no lockdown’ policy

#63
post #17

Netherlands has just imposed lockdown measures even though they're more than 80% vaccinated, I wonder at what point are we going to call this bluff, and I say this as a vaccinated person (including the booster shot).

It's such a political thing that many people are going to support government measures and wear masks at family gatherings for the rest of their lives. I wouldn't be surprised if some things like masks at the post office last forever at this point regardless of necessity.

Post office? Long time since I heard those two words together.

What country are you from? Looking at how quickly the disappeared from Sweden (merged into grocery stores) I would not be very surprised if they are gone in your country too before whatever mask mandatory you have.

Re: Sweden no longer stands out in pandemic, says architect of ‘no lockdown’ policy

#64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would love it if we could get such clear-cut results from the numbers, and just be able to say “this strategy is good, if we do that everything will be fine” (not saying you're saying that), but I really don't think that's the case. Here in Switzerland, we had plenty of lockdowns, followed the scientific wisdom and so on, and we're at 1375 deaths per million. The UK has shifted strategies around a bunch, but they h…

UK is a bad example to choose. They used the highest possible sensitivity setting on the PCR test, to the degree that no meaningful information could be extracted from them. In addition, anyone who died, for any reason, at any time after a positive test, was recorded as a covid death. Even if they died in a car accident months after they had the test. Sources: Covid-19: The problems with case counting: "What is a cas…

"A source said" isn't the same as data. People are saying a thousand accusatory things. Let's quit spreading the gossip.

Re: Sweden no longer stands out in pandemic, says architect of ‘no lockdown’ policy

#65
post #3

There are several of these articles trying to redeem Sweden's choices. Here are the results versus their similar neighbors in deaths per million people[1]: Sweden 1478 Denmark 474 Finland 219 Norway 173 They're 3 to 8 times worse. They now do compare favorably to Portugal for example at 1796. When did Portugal have the huge spike in deaths that propelled it in front of Sweden? When it decided not to do lockdowns, eve…

i wasn't aware that covid risk factors were aligned along nordic boundaries. This constant comparing along outward characteristics is problematic.

Re: Sweden no longer stands out in pandemic, says architect of ‘no lockdown’ policy

#66
post #37
post #3

There are several of these articles trying to redeem Sweden's choices. Here are the results versus their similar neighbors in deaths per million people[1]: Sweden 1478 Denmark 474 Finland 219 Norway 173 They're 3 to 8 times worse. They now do compare favorably to Portugal for example at 1796. When did Portugal have the huge spike in deaths that propelled it in front of Sweden? When it decided not to do lockdowns, eve…

Yes, but comparing flat numbers in a statistically uncorrected way is like saying "Why aren't there any of the population from oap nursing homes in primary schools?". Context is king, no more so than large scale and complex statistical analyses. Sadly almost nobody seems to appreciate this as long as they have a number to argue a point. Nobody corrects for population demographics. Population density. The various inte…

Maybe you could account for the above and provide a counter analysis?

Re: Sweden no longer stands out in pandemic, says architect of ‘no lockdown’ policy

#67
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To destroy US, they want to create a one government rule.

Oh boy. I'll bite. Who is they? What is the one government rule?

Probably the Jews. Or the Chinese, they're a newly popular boogeyman.

Re: Sweden no longer stands out in pandemic, says architect of ‘no lockdown’ policy

#68
I don't think it is interesting to hear "the architect" evaluate his own work. Tegnell has a lot of critics but they don't get the same day of light. I can't refer to an English source but Ivar Arpi's interview with Björn Olsen recently is a good balance to this self-gratulatory message from Tegnell.

Re: Sweden no longer stands out in pandemic, says architect of ‘no lockdown’ policy

#69
post #3

There are several of these articles trying to redeem Sweden's choices. Here are the results versus their similar neighbors in deaths per million people[1]: Sweden 1478 Denmark 474 Finland 219 Norway 173 They're 3 to 8 times worse. They now do compare favorably to Portugal for example at 1796. When did Portugal have the huge spike in deaths that propelled it in front of Sweden? When it decided not to do lockdowns, eve…

I'm just completely astonished by the level of incompetence. I really can't imagine how human powered moon landing occurred and if it can occur under current leadership again.

I don't really understand what happened in the last year?

We got the vaccines at the beginning but why no new vaccines? Why no lifelong protection vaccines? Where are all of the incentives to accelerate the r&d of new ways to handle this?

I mean, the current wave is worse than the worst and the strategies are still pure incompetence.

Is everyone just faking competence currently?

Re: Sweden no longer stands out in pandemic, says architect of ‘no lockdown’ policy

#70
post #3

There are several of these articles trying to redeem Sweden's choices. Here are the results versus their similar neighbors in deaths per million people[1]: Sweden 1478 Denmark 474 Finland 219 Norway 173 They're 3 to 8 times worse. They now do compare favorably to Portugal for example at 1796. When did Portugal have the huge spike in deaths that propelled it in front of Sweden? When it decided not to do lockdowns, eve…

I would love it if we could get such clear-cut results from the numbers, and just be able to say “this strategy is good, if we do that everything will be fine” (not saying you're saying that), but I really don't think that's the case. Here in Switzerland, we had plenty of lockdowns, followed the scientific wisdom and so on, and we're at 1375 deaths per million. The UK has shifted strategies around a bunch, but they h…

> There are so many other factors

What about "whether people observe care or not"? Because I have seen (also not far away from the poster, and not even in a single "culture") that a large amount of people seemed to be completely oblivious and irresponsible - and I am very sure that factor has been and is being critical. Extreme lack of contextual awareness - in general and in specific occasions, day by day and moment by moment.

Incidentally: never received so many invitations to "go out and meet and do" like in the past two years. (And of course, never been so glad of cheap communication tech being available.)

Attention is everything.

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