Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: Should I drop my CS major to pursue being a self-taught web dev?

news.ycombinator.com

1–10 of 22 posts

Ask HN: Should I drop my CS major to pursue being a self-taught web dev?

#1
Hi everyone, and thanks for clicking. I'm currently enrolled as a music/CS double major at a liberal arts university. I've just finished a summer of doing freelance web development, and I enjoy it a lot, though it can be frustrating at times. But as the beginning of my fall semester looms, I'm realizing that what I'm learning in my CS education is far less relevant to what I actually want to do than what I learn from just starting a new project and googling my way through it.

I took two intro classes, one on Python and one on Java and data structures, and I found those to be great. My class on computer structure, and that was fascinating. But moving forward, I feel like I'm heading towards the wrong niche—when I look at course titles like "Automata theory" or "Design of programming languages," they're things that I would love to learn, but I just picture myself working my ass off on some proof wondering why I let myself get so off track from something that I enjoy and can already make money doing.

Am I being naïve, or am I just starting to figure out why so many people say that college is unnecessary? I'd appreciate hearing anything about your real-world experiences that can give me some insight on which direction I should head.

Thanks!

EDIT: I had to shorten my title and I left out an important detail: I'm NOT thinking of dropping out of my university, merely doing a Music major instead of a Music/CS double major. I would likely still take CS classes—there's one on databases that seems very interesting.

Re: Ask HN: Should I drop my CS major to pursue being a self-taught web dev?

#2
I'd suggest moving forward with your degree. A degree looks good on any resume, and pushing forward with your degree will give you more flexibility in choosing jobs in the future. And, who knows? You may actually find you really like some of those niche topics.

Re: Ask HN: Should I drop my CS major to pursue being a self-taught web dev?

#3
Here's the thing. Everywhere you go you should be learning. If you drop out of college and start to do stuff on your own you will lose access to the resources currently at hand, and you will no longer be forced/encouraged to do things outside your immediate interest.

If you start working on your own ventures you will make money - probably/maybe - and that will be cool. More, you can just work on the stuff you want to - maybe - but to earn money you may end up having to do a lot of grunt work that's not really enjoyable, not creative, and certainly neither stretches nor teaches you.

Do you really think you can make it on your own? Then do it now while still working on your degree. Having a startup is incredibly hard work. If you work that hard then you can do your degree and learn all this weird, wild-ass stuff that you otherwise wouldn't, and at the same time build something cool.

No, I wouldn't drop out. If you really have the drive you can make the most of this chance. It won't come again.

Just my $0.02, YMWV.

   #include 

Re: Ask HN: Should I drop my CS major to pursue being a self-taught web dev?

#4
On the one hand, I haven't used a resume since my college internships (5 years founding startups, then freelancing through the network built up during the startups).

On the other, I still think it's worth the time. Being forced to write big, gnarly programs (like a compiler or collaborative text editor or puzzle AI) will give you experience that you'll never get from tutorials online about dealing with big, scary codebases. Or working in teams. Or whatever else.

If you learn as you go, each of those problems will get you fired when you hit it, because they're not exactly intuitive to deal with and you won't notice it until shit has already hit the fan.

There's not a 1:1 mapping between academic and real world problems, but I guess I'm saying it's still going to help. It also puts some extra items in your toolbox in case you want to do something other than vanilla web dev.

That being said, I have no way of evaluating the financial or chronological opportunity costs, as those are unique to you. It also depends how keen you are to get involved w/ your professors and students.

Plus, universities are where co-founders live!

Re: Ask HN: Should I drop my CS major to pursue being a self-taught web dev?

#5
post #4

On the one hand, I haven't used a resume since my college internships (5 years founding startups, then freelancing through the network built up during the startups). On the other, I still think it's worth the time. Being forced to write big, gnarly programs (like a compiler or collaborative text editor or puzzle AI) will give you experience that you'll never get from tutorials online about dealing with big, scary cod…

You commented before my edit, but everything you've said is still very relevant. Thanks.

The thing about the big, gnarly programs thing is that I don't think that's what happens at our CS department. The older kids in the department always talk about how the teachers can't actually code too far beyond the level required to teach the intro classes because the focus in the higher level classes is not on programming but on abstraction and theory.

I once brought a web app to my CS advisor that I'd spent a great deal of time on, testing over and over again and polishing it so that anyone who saw it would recognize it not as some sketchy work in progress but something that could actually be a finished project. His response? "I don't know anything about this kind of programming." Not "what sorts of challenges did you face?" or "what are your next steps, what are you planning on doing from here?", just that comment, some disinterested staring, and "this looks nice." I was later told by a senior in the program that any other professor would only be less interested.

I want to build things that people actually use, and that really doesn't seem to be the focus of the program. At all.

Re: Ask HN: Should I drop my CS major to pursue being a self-taught web dev?

#6

Here's the thing. Everywhere you go you should be learning. If you drop out of college and start to do stuff on your own you will lose access to the resources currently at hand, and you will no longer be forced/encouraged to do things outside your immediate interest. If you start working on your own ventures you will make money - probably/maybe - and that will be cool. More, you can just work on the stuff you want to…

Thanks for the note. I certainly don't think I can make it on my own - I don't really feel prepared for "the real world" (as if you've never heard a 20 year old say that) - but the classes that remain to be taken in the CS program, especially the required ones (Real analysis? Sure, okay) don't seem like what I need to get myself there.

Also, I left out an important piece of information in my post—I'm not dropping out, just becoming a single major (music) instead of double.

Re: Ask HN: Should I drop my CS major to pursue being a self-taught web dev?

#9
I have been there. The last semester I enrolled at was fall 2010, about 6 months ago. I did not find any value in pursuing a degree that contained subjects I had no interest in whatsoever (my major was Information and communication technology), I chose not to enroll during the spring semester in favor of attaining professional certifications (Cisco CCIE) as I had taken an interest in them and attained "lower level certs" before that. (The CCIE is considered the holy grail of networking.

Lately however, I have fallen in love with programming and software development, and I have been studying with a passion. This has led me to conclude that throughout the length of my career, I will be involved with different technologies and perhaps even disciplines. Technology is full of uncertainty, you do not know where you will be in 2 years (let alone 5), what if you get a referral for that dream job but it requires a degree? Or if you decide to build a startup and it tanks--you would have to consider employment to regain at least some of the money you have lost.

There are countless other scenarios in which you may regret not having completed your degree. However, the most important thing to consider is that once you quit, you would lose out on opportunities--what they exactly are, you will never find out.

EDIT: This is in response to your edit indicating that you are not dropping out of school. That is good. But if anything, you should drop the music major.

Re: Ask HN: Should I drop my CS major to pursue being a self-taught web dev?

#10
I went to one of those schools. Course quality in the CS department can be very hit or miss. You are right in that the instructors often have no actual programming experience. In this situation, the opposite of what you are thinking is true: automata theory is probably a better class than databases, because you don't need to be a good programmer to teach automata theory. A database class taught by a guy who doesn't program databases all the time is going to be lightweight at best and wrong at worst.

Advice is hard because it's very situation dependent. Do the courses use good books? Are the assignments worthwhile? For example of what I mean: At my school there was a prof who invented a cheap weather radar expansion board for PCs back when weather radar systems were standalone and cost hundreds of thousands of dollars. The hardware course and networking course taught by him were great. There was another guy who came back to teach after working in industry for 15 years. His courses were programming intensive and were also pretty good. In contrast the intro courses taught by the guys who went straight from grad school to teaching were weak sauce and a waste of time. HOWEVER, the automata theory class taught by one of those guys was good and was actually one of my favorite classes. Ultimately, I had a couple too many dud CS classes so switched over to a math major.

Thus, you'll have to examine the course offerings closely to see if you can piece together a reasonable major. If not it may be a better use of your time to just get a minor and take good classes from other departments. I have never regretted strengthening my math skills in lieu of taking half-assed CS courses. It was pretty easy to develop half-assed CS skills on my own.

Post reply on HN