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U.S. states file updated antitrust complaint against Google

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Re: U.S. states file updated antitrust complaint against Google

#151

> Apple's App Store insider knowledge lets them discover popular apps, then boot them off the platform when they decide to compete. Do you have examples, I’m aware of a few examples where Apple built features in that used to be 3rd party apps. But kick them off?

One of these things is not like the others - and making an “everyone is doing it” kind of statement really understates the seriousness of what Google is doing.

Google’s actions here systematically undermine auctions to their direct financial benefit, while delivering sub-optimal results for advertisers. In a way that is not an accident, but deliberately engineered and even given snappy project names that allude to the exact purpose of the deception. A better comparison is how certain banks were found to be reordering transactions to maximise the number of overdraft fees owed.

Apple only have a handful of apps and of those fewer are paid apps (they’re the pro-level tools). To claim that apple uses its knowledge of the store to make app duplications, then boot the original concepts off the store is plainly false.

An example given below by another reader is talking (I believe) about a company called Luna which produces a dongle that allows the mac to share their screen onto an iPad. Apple has always had this feature through the screen sharing service (I did the same, without a dongle, using VLC on a gen 1 iPad, long before Luna had a product - thus the feature is arguably obvious.) Over the years Apple have increased the functionality and ease of use of the screensharing features as their hardware has become more capable of running them - including the latest macos update which expanded these features further. Luna however feels they should have a monopoly on any screensharing functions with their dongle hardware. I’m yet to hear a convincing argument from this developer.

I think the core issue is that the app store is large and invariably any changes Apple make to their own software can be tenuously attributed as copying of some random title on the app store. Common-sense arguments such as: apple don’t charge for the feature, the feature is obvious, or the feature is merely an enhancement of an existing feature, are readily discounted in favour of depictions of an evil mastermind preying on utterly tiny revenue sources.

Re: U.S. states file updated antitrust complaint against Google

#152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m guessing that number is in reference to googles dominance of the search market? I’m assuming they are less than that with regards to the advertisement market (I’m not super familiar with the space, but as I understand Facebook is a huge player there as well).

What market though? There is no search market. It is a service given away for free. There is no such thing as a monopoly on something that does not cost anything.

Companies like Google and Facebook have pretty much cornered the market of the attention economy.

The vast majority of web users have their eyes and attention directly guided by one of these [0]. If they decide you do not exist, then you will effectively cease existing for billions of people on the web because they do not know a web outside of Google/YouTube or the Facebook ecosystem.

[0] https://staltz.com/the-web-began-dying-in-2014-heres-how.htm...

Re: U.S. states file updated antitrust complaint against Google

#153
post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You forgot Chromebooks, that everyone around here is so eager to advocate, basically running their business on Google's infrastructure.

>You forgot Chromebooks, that everyone around here is so eager to advocate Got a source for that?

Have fun, https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...

Re: U.S. states file updated antitrust complaint against Google

#154
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Self driving cars, free email, free docs, sheets etc. It is a serious point. Protecting advertising companies from each other is a perplexing choice of resource allocation given the alternatives.

Given the choice between free email and Google paying enough tax to improve the entire education system of the US, why do you think people would pick email? Do you believe everyone is stupid?

>why do you think people would pick email

I don't like taxing so I would never advocate for taxing a person or a company.

Re: U.S. states file updated antitrust complaint against Google

#155
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"This is nothing new, as brick and mortar retailers have store brands for popular products as well". The analogy seems spurious to me. Do brick and mortar retailers charge other brands for being a market-place ? Don't they actually buy products of other brands ?

Yes, this is the crucial difference Brick and mortar stores are dealers, Amazon is a broker. Dealers have inventories - they purchase items from the suppliers and resell them - if they misjudge demand, they're left off with useless goods. Brokers simply facilitate a transaction between two parties - there's no risk involved. The fact that brokers get to charge a higher mark-up than dealers is just bizarre

> Dealers have inventories - they purchase items from the suppliers and resell them - if they misjudge demand, they're left off with useless goods.

Everything is negotiable. If a retailer has more power than a supplier, then the retailer can demand a guaranteed sale clause in the contract, requiring the supplier to take back unsold goods and refund them.

https://www.comcapfactoring.com/blog/walmart-vendor-financin...

https://factor-this.com/walmart-supplier-financing/

Re: U.S. states file updated antitrust complaint against Google

#156
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It always completely astounded me how countless professional businesses are casually and mindlessly handing over their most private internal communication and metrics to Google on a platter. And aren't Google's privacy policies and ToS's stating that all collected information can be used to "improve their own services" or something along those lines? Does that include 'extract business advantage' from your data? I do…

(Not a Google engineer) Google's engineers are notoriously loose-lipped (which is a good thing!!!). There's no way they would be able to keep a secret like this. Anytime a customer's private data gets accessed, you either a) need approval by someone or b) "break the glass", which is only reserved for oncall fires. Either way, it gets audited. The only way I would believe something like this is if an executive/higher…

Who says Google doesn't have some secret group with security clearance, and only top management knows of its existence?

Re: U.S. states file updated antitrust complaint against Google

#157

> The lawsuit also highlights Google's use of a secret program dubbed "Project Bernanke" in 2013 that used bidding data to give its own ad-buying an advantage. For example, in a 2015 iteration of the program, Google allegedly dropped the second-highest bids from publishers' auctions, accumulated money into a pool and then spent that money to inflate only the bids belonging advertisers who used the company's Google Ad…

It's hard not to think this would be outright fraud rather than an antitrust issue to be honest. It will be interesting to see how this claim holds up.

Have you watched The Billion Dollar Code?

Re: U.S. states file updated antitrust complaint against Google

#158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(Not a Google engineer) Google's engineers are notoriously loose-lipped (which is a good thing!!!). There's no way they would be able to keep a secret like this. Anytime a customer's private data gets accessed, you either a) need approval by someone or b) "break the glass", which is only reserved for oncall fires. Either way, it gets audited. The only way I would believe something like this is if an executive/higher…

Who says Google doesn't have some secret group with security clearance, and only top management knows of its existence?

You missspelled Baidu and CCP there.

Re: U.S. states file updated antitrust complaint against Google

#160
post #140

Still waiting for investigators to look into Chrome. In 2009 we were finally getting rid of IE and the web browser market was a healthy ecosystem with lots and lots of innovation happening. Today we are soon back on a browser monoculture with the owner of the most popular product being a company that has enormous interest in killing certain parts of the ecosystem and also has a long history of killing of their own pr…

Yeah, reminds me when Google purposefully blocked Firefox from accessing Inbox. Changing the user-agent revealed that they did that for no other purpose than "performance wasn't what we wanted" while the application worked fine as it was, proved by just changing the user-agent. They also let people use other applications that are slow in Firefox, like Google Photos, but somehow Inbox was different. Gist: https://gist…

Thanks! I've added it to my collection.

I called authorities again earlier this week and they promised to get back to me if they need more evidence.

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