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Study finds a difference between neurons of humans and other mammals

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Re: Study finds a difference between neurons of humans and other mammals

#11

Post by mcbits »

mikewarot wrote: post #7

>They were able to obtain brain tissue from 10 mammalian species: Etruscan shrews (one of the smallest known mammals), gerbils, mice, rats, Guinea pigs, ferrets, rabbits, marmosets, and macaques, as well as human tissue removed from patients with epilepsy during brain surgery. Offbeat question: Could it be that epilepsy is a disorder caused by this missing ion channel, and this isn't true for all humans?

If true, that would be an embarrassing oversight in the study as well as possibly #1 in one of those "Top 10 accidental scientific discoveries that changed everything" articles.

Re: Study finds a difference between neurons of humans and other mammals

#12

Post by netcan »

Garlef wrote: post #10
Jensson wrote: post #3

I highly doubt that reducing the number of channels is a simple efficiency hack, if it was simple to just reduce the density then animals would have had lower density just like humans. The question to ask is why humans would benefit from having fewer channels while animals doesn't. My naïve hunch tells me that this could be related to rationality in some way, that weakening the ion pump signals could make it easier f…

> My naïve hunch tells me that this could be related to rationality in some way, that weakening the ion pump signals could make it easier for cells to learn and make alternate computations, creating humans strong rationality that is capable of overriding our natural urges. That's quite a conclusion you're jumping to... "rationality" is a word denoting a very complex concept obtaining its meaning only through a specif…

Quite, but I don't think GP is jumping to a conclusion. More like proposing an interesting hypothesis.

Re: Study finds a difference between neurons of humans and other mammals

#13

Post by Garlef »

netcan wrote: post #12
Garlef wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My naïve hunch tells me that this could be related to rationality in some way, that weakening the ion pump signals could make it easier for cells to learn and make alternate computations, creating humans strong rationality that is capable of overriding our natural urges. That's quite a conclusion you're jumping to... "rationality" is a word denoting a very complex concept obtaining its meaning only through a specif…

Quite, but I don't think GP is jumping to a conclusion. More like proposing an interesting hypothesis.

To say it less politely: To me it seems more like stoner talk.

"Quantum entanglement, ... blablabla, ... collective subconscious, ... blablabla, ... everything is connected, man!"

Re: Study finds a difference between neurons of humans and other mammals

#14

Post by Causality1 »

ummonk wrote: post #8

Since it’s about density of ion channels, surely you’d want to check brain samples from animals with brains larger than humans’ to compare?

This is a good point. There are several other metrics by which larger-massed animals are more efficient than smaller ones, such as oxygen usage per kg of body mass. Perhaps a similar effect is applicable to brains?

Re: Study finds a difference between neurons of humans and other mammals

#15

Post by swayvil »

Jensson wrote: post #3

I highly doubt that reducing the number of channels is a simple efficiency hack, if it was simple to just reduce the density then animals would have had lower density just like humans. The question to ask is why humans would benefit from having fewer channels while animals doesn't. My naïve hunch tells me that this could be related to rationality in some way, that weakening the ion pump signals could make it easier f…

I was thinking somewhat similarly.

The reduction in channels could mirror a difference in attention-investment. More attention invested in the "thought realm" and less in the "physical realm". Thus our unique facility with thought.

Re: Study finds a difference between neurons of humans and other mammals

#17

Post by epmaybe »

mikewarot wrote: post #7

>They were able to obtain brain tissue from 10 mammalian species: Etruscan shrews (one of the smallest known mammals), gerbils, mice, rats, Guinea pigs, ferrets, rabbits, marmosets, and macaques, as well as human tissue removed from patients with epilepsy during brain surgery. Offbeat question: Could it be that epilepsy is a disorder caused by this missing ion channel, and this isn't true for all humans?

Disclaimer: I have not read this article. However, there are multiple known genetic epilepsy disorders that have specific ion channels that are either missing/mutated.

Re: Study finds a difference between neurons of humans and other mammals

#18

Post by [deleted] »

mcbits wrote: post #11
mikewarot wrote: post #7

>They were able to obtain brain tissue from 10 mammalian species: Etruscan shrews (one of the smallest known mammals), gerbils, mice, rats, Guinea pigs, ferrets, rabbits, marmosets, and macaques, as well as human tissue removed from patients with epilepsy during brain surgery. Offbeat question: Could it be that epilepsy is a disorder caused by this missing ion channel, and this isn't true for all humans?

If true, that would be an embarrassing oversight in the study as well as possibly #1 in one of those "Top 10 accidental scientific discoveries that changed everything" articles.

[deleted]

Re: Study finds a difference between neurons of humans and other mammals

#19

Post by Ginden »

Jensson wrote: post #3

I highly doubt that reducing the number of channels is a simple efficiency hack, if it was simple to just reduce the density then animals would have had lower density just like humans. The question to ask is why humans would benefit from having fewer channels while animals doesn't. My naïve hunch tells me that this could be related to rationality in some way, that weakening the ion pump signals could make it easier f…

Many animals aren't under strong pressure to increase efficiency of their brains, because these brain are small and majority of metabolism is put into very basal structures like brainstem.

Birds for example were under such evolutionary pressure and look where it got them - Corvidae have 15g brain and they are much smarter than 22g squirell or 30g cat.

Moreover, such choices have tradeoffs, improving efficiency often requires more precise regulation that can be nondesirable for small species.

Re: Study finds a difference between neurons of humans and other mammals

#20

Post by nandhinianand »

Garlef wrote: post #10
Jensson wrote: post #3

I highly doubt that reducing the number of channels is a simple efficiency hack, if it was simple to just reduce the density then animals would have had lower density just like humans. The question to ask is why humans would benefit from having fewer channels while animals doesn't. My naïve hunch tells me that this could be related to rationality in some way, that weakening the ion pump signals could make it easier f…

> My naïve hunch tells me that this could be related to rationality in some way, that weakening the ion pump signals could make it easier for cells to learn and make alternate computations, creating humans strong rationality that is capable of overriding our natural urges. That's quite a conclusion you're jumping to... "rationality" is a word denoting a very complex concept obtaining its meaning only through a specif…

yeah.. my first hypothesis i was jumping to was that reducing the ion channels reduces specialization and can work on improving distributed(across) neurons decisions/calls... It would be interesting to see a cognitive behavioural task both primates and humans can do and see if the blood flow/electromagnetic activity is more spread across the brain vs more localized in parts of the brain.
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