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American spy hacked Booking.com, company stayed silent

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Re: American spy hacked Booking.com, company stayed silent

#291

Post by BostonEnginerd »

Spooky23 wrote: post #246
kube-system wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if a smart lock used ROT13 encryption, the easiest way to defeat it is still probably a mechanical attack. The state of mechanical security is a whole new level of weak.

The previous owners of my house dropped several hundred dollars on a Medeco lock. Keys are a pain in the ass to replace, and there is literally a set of 3 windows within reach in the porch that could be opened trivially. The biggest feature of any lock is breaking into a locked house is a felony for the perp.

Someone could easily get into my house in 20m with a reciprocating saw. The lock is only there to make it marginally more annoying to break in.

Re: American spy hacked Booking.com, company stayed silent

#292

Post by BoorishBears »

samhw wrote: post #194
A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry for making it read like a conspiracy. When I typed allowed, I didn't want to ascribe any particular interpretation so I settled on that verb. In that sense, intelligence was gathered, reported and then something happened. I have zero problem believing it got lost in the shuffle as I have seen some big entities fail in that regard. If more malicious interpretation is followed, your guess is as good mine. I am wi…

Oh no, I didn't mean it in a critical way. I was just hedging my agreement by acknowledging that it sounds a bit mad, but it does seem to be practically the only interpretation which actually coheres with the facts. My guess is that, like with most of these complex human system failures, it was a combination of inattention and mildly-ideologically-motivated disinterest (e.g. someone didn't really think white national…

You're being way too charitable, it's because of race.

If it's foreigners hammer down. Mostly white Americans on American soil? So called "patriots"?

Well now let's slow down. Don't want to violate any rights.

I mean even think about it for second, the Jan 6 conspirators have it in their mind they're doing what it takes for their country, formalities be damned.

Sound like any other organizations you know?

Re: American spy hacked Booking.com, company stayed silent

#293

Post by samhw »

BoorishBears wrote: post #292
samhw wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh no, I didn't mean it in a critical way. I was just hedging my agreement by acknowledging that it sounds a bit mad, but it does seem to be practically the only interpretation which actually coheres with the facts. My guess is that, like with most of these complex human system failures, it was a combination of inattention and mildly-ideologically-motivated disinterest (e.g. someone didn't really think white national…

You're being way too charitable, it's because of race. If it's foreigners hammer down. Mostly white Americans on American soil? So called "patriots"? Well now let's slow down. Don't want to violate any rights. I mean even think about it for second, the Jan 6 conspirators have it in their mind they're doing what it takes for their country, formalities be damned. Sound like any other organizations you know?

I suspect you're probably right about this. I'm not suggesting that the people in those positions are impassioned white supremacists or anything like that - they may well be liberals or even anti-racists, but still retaining an unconscious expectation that white people are less likely to commit violent crimes. (Which is statistically true, after all, albeit obviously not due to any intrinsic qualities of either group.)

Re: American spy hacked Booking.com, company stayed silent

#294

Post by BoorishBears »

samhw wrote: post #293
BoorishBears wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're being way too charitable, it's because of race. If it's foreigners hammer down. Mostly white Americans on American soil? So called "patriots"? Well now let's slow down. Don't want to violate any rights. I mean even think about it for second, the Jan 6 conspirators have it in their mind they're doing what it takes for their country, formalities be damned. Sound like any other organizations you know?

I suspect you're probably right about this. I'm not suggesting that the people in those positions are impassioned white supremacists or anything like that - they may well be liberals or even anti-racists, but still retaining an unconscious expectation that white people are less likely to commit violent crimes. (Which is statistically true, after all, albeit obviously not due to any intrinsic qualities of either group…

With few exceptions like people flying in on private jets hoping to grow their own causes, the Jan 6 protestors and people who identified with them were poorly educated whites from low-income backgrounds

Poverty precipitates violent crime across skin colors: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1300/J134v09n03_03?jo...

The FBI definitely knew these were people liable to make good on their threats lol.

-

What your disturbingly often quoted factoid is mostly reflecting is that white people have a higher median income than blacks, which is no surprise in the country that destroyed black neighborhoods for basic infrastructure, denied them access to the economy during the greatest periods of growth it ever saw, denied them loans until that was made illegal... well in the 70s.

The FBI knows better than that.

Re: American spy hacked Booking.com, company stayed silent

#295

Post by DonHopkins »

Spooky23 wrote: post #246
kube-system wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if a smart lock used ROT13 encryption, the easiest way to defeat it is still probably a mechanical attack. The state of mechanical security is a whole new level of weak.

The previous owners of my house dropped several hundred dollars on a Medeco lock. Keys are a pain in the ass to replace, and there is literally a set of 3 windows within reach in the porch that could be opened trivially. The biggest feature of any lock is breaking into a locked house is a felony for the perp.

I remember watching a Saturday Morning Cartoon of the 1966 animated version of the Incredible Hulk, where the evil mad scientist build this amazingly secure super-duper fancy high-tech Hulk-Proof Door that he was sure there was no way the Hulk could possibly open.

So the Hulk just knocked a hole in his stone castle wall next to the door, and walked into the lab.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuPYrRRNQkE

Re: American spy hacked Booking.com, company stayed silent

#296

Post by DonHopkins »

hemloc_io wrote: post #249
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is unfortunate, that this is what the tech industry has evolved into. My thoughts, exactly. I started off in the 1980s, just as tech was starting to become mainstream. In the early days, we were not the most "socially well-adjusted" crew, but were fairly enthusiastic about the tech, with most of us working for the love of the craft. Then, the money started to pour in. It was inevitable. That brought the sharks a…

Wasn't alive for 1980s and it's a controversial take here on HNs but some of the most excitement I've seen has been in the crypto space since the 2010s. Once you get past the scam/hype bullshit anyway.

The excitement around the crypto space is a lot like all the excitement around the Psychic Hotline space of the 1990's.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BO50TC6WG8A

But psychics didn't burn anywhere near as much coal and cause as much cancer and lung disease as crypto does.

>Once you get past the scam/hype bullshit anyway.

"Well, aside from that, Mrs. Lincoln, what did you think of the play?"

https://www.barrypopik.com/index.php/new_york_city/entry/oth...

Re: American spy hacked Booking.com, company stayed silent

#297

Post by furyg3 »

Ichthypresbyter wrote: post #203
furyg3 wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are definitely black hats. Intelligence services operating in foreign countries (physically or digitally) are by definition criminals, in that they are breaking the local laws where they are operating / accessing. That they are doing it for a 'good cause' (often debatable) is somewhat irrelevant, that is a risk/reward calculation that the country/agency/spy needs to make themselves. If a a friendly country of th…

>the CIA hacks NL companies and the Dutch RIVM hacks American ones and they share information/metadata The AIVD is the Dutch intelligence service, the RIVM is the public health institute. I don't think even the most out-there of Dutch conspiracy theorists have accused the RIVM of hacking American companies on behalf of the CIA...

Haha your are absolutely correct. Of course they are much more prominent in the news at the moment and my mind totally slipped.

Re: American spy hacked Booking.com, company stayed silent

#298

Post by furyg3 »

ninjanomnom wrote: post #237
furyg3 wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are definitely black hats. Intelligence services operating in foreign countries (physically or digitally) are by definition criminals, in that they are breaking the local laws where they are operating / accessing. That they are doing it for a 'good cause' (often debatable) is somewhat irrelevant, that is a risk/reward calculation that the country/agency/spy needs to make themselves. If a a friendly country of th…

Illegal activities done with good intention (and usually outcome) is what the term greyhat is for. It would be fair to argue that's the correct term here for government agency hackers but personally I don't have strong enough stance on the subject to say either way.

The examples of the 'good guy' spies carrying out 'bad intention' activities are legion, and so the conclusion that trusting any covert intelligence organization is a good idea is extremely flawed.

Re: American spy hacked Booking.com, company stayed silent

#299

Post by ninjanomnom »

furyg3 wrote: post #298
ninjanomnom wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Illegal activities done with good intention (and usually outcome) is what the term greyhat is for. It would be fair to argue that's the correct term here for government agency hackers but personally I don't have strong enough stance on the subject to say either way.

The examples of the 'good guy' spies carrying out 'bad intention' activities are legion, and so the conclusion that trusting any covert intelligence organization is a good idea is extremely flawed.

I was mostly responding to this.

> They are definitely black hats.

There's a fair argument to be made that they're grey hat. On the whole though I agree with you and you shouldn't give blanket trust to people performing these kinds of activities. I would just assign a bit different value to a black hat activity (illegal and/or harmful and only beneficial by accident if at all) vs grey hat activity (illegal and potentially harmful but attempting to be beneficial)

Re: American spy hacked Booking.com, company stayed silent

#300

Post by ninjanomnom »

sudosysgen wrote: post #276
ninjanomnom wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Illegal activities done with good intention (and usually outcome) is what the term greyhat is for. It would be fair to argue that's the correct term here for government agency hackers but personally I don't have strong enough stance on the subject to say either way.

Would Russia hacking a US election for example count as greyhat?

Unless you truly believe that interfering with the results of a free election is for the better of the participants of that election, no that's a black hat activity. There's nuance here since you have to think about perspective, no one is a villain in their own eyes, but personally I find the most useful perspective for the kind of hat to be from the victim.
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