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I Got Fired from Amazon as a Software Development Engineer

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Re: I Got Fired from Amazon as a Software Development Engineer

#101

Post by fumer »

yummy_box wrote: post #3

I also work at Amazon, and I can tell you, your experience was pretty unique. Some teams are worst than others, of course, but no one expect you to pick up a project by yourself, fresh out of onboarding and own it end to end. After you clear your interview loops, you get the chance to match with several teams (not always) and that is your chance to figure out what the team does, whats the situation over there, etc...…

> I also work at Amazon, and I can tell you, your experience was pretty unique. Some teams are worst than others, of course, but no one expect you to pick up a project by yourself, fresh out of onboarding and own it end to end.

I am a SDE at Amazon and I can tell you for a fact that so far the majority of the projects I've been involved roll out exactly like this. The excuses vary, and fortunately I haven't seen the inclusion card in play yet, but all the gaslighting and sacrificial lamb elements and shifting responsibilities and career tactics are ever present.

> if you were hired for a specific team, and you feel is a bad match, you can talk to your recruiter/hiring manager and they will find you another team.

I have to call bullshit on this. Either you play that out in stealth mode until you are sure the other team picks you, or you are in a world of pain. As soon as you click on the recruiter button, your SDM and senior SDM are notified immediately, and if you are not in the best terms with them they can and more often than not do screw up with your plans and even your job. There's a horror story around my corner of the org of someone who wanted out of his team and simply did what you said should be done, but long story short his transfer was sabotaged by the SDM who afterwards placed him in a performance improvement plan with no return.

> But for them to fire you like that you have to be doing pretty bad, or maybe your manager felt you were a bad person.

No, not at all, at least from what I see on a daily basis. All it takes is that you get in the way of your manager's career goals. They have attrition metrics and goals and you have your yearly Forte to cull the herd and keep the average tenure below 3 years.

Re: I Got Fired from Amazon as a Software Development Engineer

#102

Post by mensetmanusman »

endisneigh wrote: post #9

I won’t comment on whether the action is justified or not in this instance, but: Never hang up on a colleague. Ever. As far as social phone etiquette goes that’s probably one of the most egregious things you can do. Instead, humble yourself, politely disagree and document over email, copying another colleague who witnessed, or if unavailable the manager (in this case the skip).

Or just shadow mute them. Eg lower the volume let them talk while you browse hn.

Re: I Got Fired from Amazon as a Software Development Engineer

#103

Post by meowfly »

endisneigh wrote: post #9

I won’t comment on whether the action is justified or not in this instance, but: Never hang up on a colleague. Ever. As far as social phone etiquette goes that’s probably one of the most egregious things you can do. Instead, humble yourself, politely disagree and document over email, copying another colleague who witnessed, or if unavailable the manager (in this case the skip).

I agree. It is my advice to people in similar situations that at the point a relationship with a coworker sours, move to a medium that allows lots of documentation and stay extra civil. Try to invite a third party to all your meetings and move as much communication as possible to messaging or email.

At a previous job I had a product manager that was trying to get me fired because I was refusing to work on some "high priority" projects where we were being dictated the scope and timeline. My team, for some reason, was absolutely craven. They just let me take the heat and then in private conversations thank me for speaking up.

Our PM was new and it was easier to put pressure on us than tell some VP their pet project wasn't getting done. The relationship between both of us went extremely south.

When my PM complained, both of our bosses got sucked into a meeting about me. I was able to respond with plenty of documentation as well as coworker testimony that cleared me of doing anything wrong. Even though I had actual resentment of this person, it was never displayed.

It's clear to me that my PM looked bad by badmouthing me to coworkers, and communicating to me in emotionally aggressive ways. I think OP is making a political mistake by showing emotional outbursts. It makes it too easy to discredit the substance of their argument as simply being a personal issue.

Re: I Got Fired from Amazon as a Software Development Engineer

#104

Post by whycombinatore »

hackernews777 wrote: post #4

If you got fired over this it's highly likely you said something pretty bad. The only times I have seen anyone get instafired at Amazon is when they have done something that could be deemed as harassment. (eg. making sexual or racial advancements towards a direct report) Anybody else who gets fired for performance reasons knows they are thin ice for a long time.

Amazon has shit managers. Stop whitewashing your behavior.

Re: I Got Fired from Amazon as a Software Development Engineer

#105

Post by rkk3 »

thebruce87m wrote: post #96
rkk3 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> I gave my manager a piece of my mind. She brought gender into the equation and said that I couldn’t speak to a girl like that > I can see how he snapped over his moron manager bringing gender into things. he "snapped", then they "brought up gender". Since it sounds like he was fired for cause he probably called them a B!#$^ or C@!$, but who knows.

I don’t use those words at work or otherwise, but aren’t they both gender neutral as derogatory terms? At least in modern times?

> aren’t they both gender neutral as derogatory terms? At least in modern times?

Assuming you aren't trolling, No they aren't gender neutral, they have significantly different implications based on who you say it to just like racially pejorative terms.

Re: I Got Fired from Amazon as a Software Development Engineer

#106

Post by browningstreet »

Krisjohn wrote: post #74
browningstreet wrote: post #30

Neutral tone and temperament are essential skills at this level. Opinions, not so much. I’ve worked in similar environments where an SVP ignored all communications about a project until it was useful for them to be interested and gaslight everything that had happened and had been communicated before. In fact, the stink wasn’t on anyone involved, but the project itself. There’s a way to come out of these things unscat…

Paraphrasing: It doesn't matter how much shit gets piled on you, how little support you get, how stupid the deadlines are, or how bad the communication is, if you get visibly upset you lose.

..except you're suggesting there's no recourse beyond "getting visibly upset". There are plenty of wisdoms out there, from non-violent communication, to mindfulness, to "professionalism" that suggests "getting visibly upset" isn't the most effective means of disrupting or altering negative conditions.

Re: I Got Fired from Amazon as a Software Development Engineer

#107

Post by thebruce87m »

rkk3 wrote: post #105
thebruce87m wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t use those words at work or otherwise, but aren’t they both gender neutral as derogatory terms? At least in modern times?

> aren’t they both gender neutral as derogatory terms? At least in modern times? Assuming you aren't trolling, No they aren't gender neutral, they have significantly different implications based on who you say it to just like racially pejorative terms.

Not trolling at all. Cunt is fairly common in the UK for males talking to male friends. Bitch is less common in the UK, but I used to hear it all the time on US centric gaming chat which was primarily males talking to males.

Edit: can’t believe my root comment got downvotes for asking a genuine question.

Re: I Got Fired from Amazon as a Software Development Engineer

#108

Post by rkk3 »

thebruce87m wrote: post #107
rkk3 wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> aren’t they both gender neutral as derogatory terms? At least in modern times? Assuming you aren't trolling, No they aren't gender neutral, they have significantly different implications based on who you say it to just like racially pejorative terms.

Not trolling at all. Cunt is fairly common in the UK for males talking to male friends. Bitch is less common in the UK, but I used to hear it all the time on US centric gaming chat which was primarily males talking to males. Edit: can’t believe my root comment got downvotes for asking a genuine question.

Ah cultural differences, didn't occur to me. Both terms are significantly more offensive in the US when applied to women.

Re: I Got Fired from Amazon as a Software Development Engineer

#109

Post by pythonaut_16 »

noduerme wrote: post #94
scruple wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have nothing but personal anecdotes and observations to base my thoughts on here but it seems to me that this has become true of life in general. And as the OP has now learned, it's of no consolation how right you are or how justified you may be to get angry in the first place, either. You still lost.

No - it's not true of life. Justified anger always serves a purpose. I can't stand this attitude of helplessness. OP should have gone full balls-to-the-walls from day one, over the head of the team leader and said exactly what happened. If you're going to get fired, at least get fired for being a loud asshole, so they have to think about what they did wrong, i.e. did we not hire a meek enough whipping boy? Should we…

It's not helplessness it's communication.

Re: I Got Fired from Amazon as a Software Development Engineer

#110

Post by scruple »

Eldt wrote: post #93
scruple wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have nothing but personal anecdotes and observations to base my thoughts on here but it seems to me that this has become true of life in general. And as the OP has now learned, it's of no consolation how right you are or how justified you may be to get angry in the first place, either. You still lost.

Sometimes you just need to stop scurrying about and stand up for yourself.

I agree completely but I've observed that you will often walk away from those situations looking like you're wrong / you're the asshole.
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