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Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

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Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#541

Post by jacquesm »

deanc wrote: post #514
jacquesm wrote: post #441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've looked at that bike now. It's a regular e-bike, not an s-pedelec so quite a bit slower, also the range is very small. I like the looks though, very elegant. But like I wrote in the article, I'm probably faster on my old non assisted racer than I would be on that bike even though it would give me more range because it's assisted. The battery on my bike is more than four times as large, and will do 180 km at maxim…

Are you driving the s-pedelec on bike lanes in NL? It’s illegal to do so here in Finland although it’s not well enforced and no way am I riding in traffic here. You’re also required to have a license plate for the s-pedelec here also.

Yes, this is legal here, not the square signed 'fietspad' paths but the iconic ones that are also used by scooters. The speed limit in town is 30 on those, outside it's 45.

Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#542

Post by jacquesm »

cool-RR wrote: post #510

That's cool, but why not just carry extra batteries and switch?

Because the batteries have to ride somewhere, in a bag in the back it messes up the weight distribution of the bike and every time you make a turn all that weight bangs into the frame at the back. Another problem is that you get a silly little bit of range per battery, 30 km on a good day, so you end up maxing out those batteries. If you want to spread the load across four batteries (same weight) then you will have to swap batteries every 16 km or so. So this is far more practical and much better for the cells in the longer term as well as a safer bike to ride.

Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#543

Post by jacquesm »

lucb1e wrote: post #472

> it barely discharges over a trip like that, which should help with longevity Only if you don't charge it fully though, right? As in, charge to just below X% when the amount of charge you expect to need is X/2 percent-points, rather than to 100% and not use it fully. At least that's my understanding and how I've been treating my li-ion devices.

Very precisely: it goes from 40.5 (about 80% soc) to 37.5V (about 60% soc) over a 64 km ride.

So indeed, not charged fully. Just enough to stay in the 80 to 20 window, which still gives me about 100 km of range to play with which is plenty and if I need it I can always charge it up fully and run it down but I don't expect that to ever happen. But those would be expensive cycles life-span wise.

Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#544

Post by jacquesm »

mardifoufs wrote: post #467
jacquesm wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently :)

In any case they'll love it there! I'm more onto other energy storage forums, and it's sometimes a bit less active than I'd wish it was but you can get some very good insights from some of the users there. I've avoided quite a few headaches and lesser documented problems with energy management w.r.t liion batteries thanks to those forums.

Feel free to post it there, I have my HN and Twitter accounts and that's enough for me.

Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#545

Post by jacquesm »

tda wrote: post #505
jacquesm wrote: post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How was the Stromer reliability wise?

I had my share of controller issues, where the bike would give an error. Removing the battery a few times usually solved it, but somehow the magnetic connector is too sensitive. Worse is that it is really easy to improperly connect the charger, so sometimes it would not charge at work Depending on wind and temperature that would give me a ton of range anxiety. Especially as cycling on a stromer without assist is very…

Thank you. I know two people with Stromers and their stories are quite comparable. The gear looks awesome and when it works it works fantastic but it seems a bit fickle and I'd really hate to be stuck halfway on a 65 km ride on a bike that heavy. Which is why I ended up building what I did, the Bosch system is reliable, a bit slower and DRM'd to the hilt but I figured I'd find a way to make that work. Fortunately the BMS is not smart enough to recognize the much larger battery to the point that it will brick itself, it ends up a bit confused about range, as the battery depletes the kilometers get longer and longer :)

Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#546

Post by jacquesm »

lucb1e wrote: post #477
jacquesm wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Riding in traffic here is suicide. Drivers get very irritated when you are not exactly at the speed limit and I've had more than one instance where someone essentially overtook and then forced me into the bike lane. And that's just here in town, where there is absolutely nothing to gain.

> forced me into the bike lane hold up, forced your bike into the bike lane? Why were you not there in the first place? (Not meant accusatory, I must be misunderstanding or missing something; I don't even know where "here" is.)

Here is NL, legally in town I'm supposed to be driving in traffic with this bike, it's an s-pedelec, not a normal e-bike. It's insured and has a yellow license plate, and it is legally treated like a 45 kph scooter even though it clearly isn't a scooter visually and so drivers get irritated by the slowpoke in 'their' lane.

Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#547

Post by jacquesm »

GhettoComputers wrote: post #475
jacquesm wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I figured with the kind of mileage that I'm getting out of this and the cost of electricity it's a pretty good deal compared to firing up my trusty boxer. I've used two packs, two times 500 Wh but I'd run them dry on my regular commute so that's what drove the decision to build this bigger pack. There are some advantages, but the Bosch system keeps a reserve so you'll end up transporting some idle capacity anyway and…

Keeping them within a certain range is useful but not as much as preventing them from overheating, heat and fast charging is more dangerous, basically if you limit them to 80% it will prevent trickle charging, you can do this in hardware by monitoring the speed it charges at and shutting off when it lowers with wattage monitoring equipment. Apple has this as well, and every lithium charger has trickle charging at 80%…

It all helps, heat and fast charging are bad, charging to 100% and discharging to zero are also bad (100's of cycles vs thousands!).

I salvaged a BMS from a borked battery to fool the Bosch system into thinking that it has a 'legit' battery, and yes, you need that chip, the CAN-BUS communications do all kinds of stuff such as report state-of-charge to the display, enable the high voltage bus and so on. Without that the bike simply won't work.

The pack has enough capacity that range simply isn't a problem any more, just charge it up to 80% and go where ever you want that is within a reasonable distance (say 150 km).

I'm aware of battery university, I probably know the Lithium Ion page by heart now, you can quiz me :)

Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#548

Post by jacquesm »

bob29 wrote: post #430
jacquesm wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because that would invalidate the type approval and that in turn would invalidate my insurance.

The insurance is OK with a home made battery? And there's no concern for public workers if some unidentified custom battery catches on fire for example? I've never seen a thumb throttle burn down someones house. Alibaba batteries though? https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=87975

The insurance is perfectly ok with a home made battery. And public workers will arrive on the scene when there is nothing but some charred trespa left of my build if it should ever catch fire. Which is why it's located where it is on my bike, because I lack confidence in my ability to build stuff ;)

Note how the theme of safety has been paramount during this build, during the use and even in case of a crash or other accident, this wasn't a 'oh let's build a pack' project done in 48 hours, you're looking at a couple of months of research and work.

As for Alibaba batteries: you get what you pay for, and I would never use a pack for a project like this with cells that I haven't tested myself, each and every one to a very high standard.

Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#549

Post by ornornor »

jacquesm wrote: post #534
ornornor wrote: post #511

There are alternatives that don’t involve DRM or Bosch at all. I built our ebikes around regular bikes using a TSDZ2 torque sensing motor and an em3ev 52V battery. Total cost around 600$ + bike + tools. The battery is already assembled so no risk of setting your house on fire. The torque sensing makes it really natural (like having bionic legs), the whole thing has an open source firmware if you want to replace the C…

Where I live you can't legally cobble together your own s-pedelec, you need type approval.

Same here. The tsdz2 based bike is limited to 25 km/h so it’s a bicycle and not a s-pedelec.

The so called cyber bike is though and it wouldn’t be legal either where I live.

Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#550

Post by gambiting »

wayoutthere wrote: post #406
alistairSH wrote: post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

* You're not really a regular bicycle anymore due to your speed, but you're also not a motorcycle that deserves its own lane.* If you’re traveling at normal road speeds, wouldn’t you be a (electric) motorcycle? And require lights, tags, and insurance like any other motorcycle?

E-bikes in the US require pressure on the pedals to avoid being classified as vehicles (they’re cycling assist devices). That said, many people have retrofitted those assist systems with garage modifications that remove the need to push the pedals or even add a digital “throttle”. Illegal? Sure. Are they going to get charged for it? Probably not.

>>Illegal? Sure. Are they going to get charged for it? Probably not.

Until they get into an accident and they discover that no insurance will cover them in any way because they were riding an illegaly modified vehicle. Also good way to find yourself 100% at fault in any collision.

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