Chinese embassy lobbies U.S. business to oppose China bills • Hacker News Board

Re: Chinese embassy lobbies U.S. business to oppose China bills

#61

Post by intricatedetail » Sat, Nov 13, 2021, 9:35 AM UTC

arcticbull wrote: post #35

MeinBlutIstBlau wrote: post #3

I wonder if the onset of globalization and offshoring US factories to China on top of Citizens United will be remembered as the US's "Fall of Rome" moment. The US essentially allowed the government to be bought and paid for by foreign entities and is relying on said countries for most manufactured goods. So now the other country can essentially say "Our laws are your laws otherwise we're not going manufacture your go…

In my opinion the US not capitalizing on China taking the undesirable, low-skill labor is the miss. The inescapable future of humanity is full automation of low-skill (and potentially higher skill) jobs, especially manufacturing. Rather than lament China taking these on before the robots could get to them and pining for a long-departed past, America could have used this huge head start as an advantage and shaped soci…

> taking the undesirable, low-skill labor is the miss.

This is big co propaganda. These jobs are "undesirable" because corporations won't pay adequate money for doing them. I know plenty of people who love working simple stuff, there is just no way to feed family out of it. Given how many billions these companies amass, there is money to pay for those jobs, they just prefer to "outsource" and lie that they can't find people.

Re: Chinese embassy lobbies U.S. business to oppose China bills

#62

Post by darthrupert » Sat, Nov 13, 2021, 9:36 AM UTC

inglor_cz wrote: post #55

rvba wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So basically you dont care what happens when you die? Sounds like boomer logic. "A society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shade they know they shall never sit."

Boomers were the ones who started the recent environmental movement, so your quote is rather ironic.

Those boomers were rare and spat on, though. In the current younger generations, enviromentalism is generally accepted as a good idea.

Re: Chinese embassy lobbies U.S. business to oppose China bills

#63

Post by systemvoltage » Sat, Nov 13, 2021, 9:39 AM UTC

Aunche wrote: post #39

lazyeye wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its quite simple. With the advent of globalisation the self-interest of the elites is no longer in alignment with the national interest. They can make money far more easily by employing Chinese workers, growing Chinese industry, than they do local. And of course, anyone that pushes back against this is (conveniently) a "xenophobic, racist, white supremacist, Trump-voting blah blah blah...".

I wouldn't go so far as to call it racism, but I do find it somewhat xenophobic to suggest that it is wrong to outsource you work to other countries. Why is a Chinese worker any less worthy of a job than an American one? $1 in in a developing country goes further than $10 in a developed one. Globalization has granted billions of people access to things we take for granted like electricity and heating.

We call ourselves “Developed”. It’s already implicitly throwing in the towel - there is nothing more to be done. We’ve already developed. This entire thinking and it’s psyche in our society feels like straight up propaganda. It used to be first-world and third-world.

Chinese labor force isn’t going to help defend Taiwan by making tank gadgets for them. Investing in Chinese labor has so many issues. If we didn’t have a rust belt (that led to Trumpism), we would have left a better nation to lead the world and maybe we can think about leveraging world wide labor - but this time with fair conditions and well paid workers.

It’s not just US, it is the same in EU and many other G20 nations.

Your thinking is appealing to emotional and not rational understanding of the globalism. Truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

Re: Chinese embassy lobbies U.S. business to oppose China bills

#64

Post by redis_mlc » Sat, Nov 13, 2021, 9:41 AM UTC

kelnos wrote: post #44

redis_mlc wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could argue that Nixon improved relations with China to counter-balance USSR influence during the Cold War. It was obviously foolish to help China become an economic power since the CCP has been at war with the US since the end of WW2 (2 Taiwan Straits wars, 2 Korean wars, Vietnam war), largely driven by Maoist ideology. (The USSR was involved in stopping the Straits wars to prevent wider conflicts.) (The USSR de…

> Note that China has structural weaknesses that will diminish its power: they import 50% of their energy and food, and have a demographic problem that could cut their population in half. They also have serious flooding issues, with 100,000 questionable dams built since 1945. This is the only thing that gives me hope, honestly. The West is too busy trying to play nice for whatever reason[0]. I think the only thing th…

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Re: Chinese embassy lobbies U.S. business to oppose China bills

#65

Post by b112 » Sat, Nov 13, 2021, 10:03 AM UTC

liketochill wrote: post #51

arcticbull wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my opinion the US not capitalizing on China taking the undesirable, low-skill labor is the miss. The inescapable future of humanity is full automation of low-skill (and potentially higher skill) jobs, especially manufacturing. Rather than lament China taking these on before the robots could get to them and pining for a long-departed past, America could have used this huge head start as an advantage and shaped soci…

To know how to automate a job, you have to know how to do the job, and all the physics behind it, plus the automation skills. If there are no factories in your country that even produce that product there isn’t going to be a supply of people to automate the job. The automation jobs and tech that goes with that will follow the manual labour jobs and factories they are in.

There are still those alive, who can be consulted about the "old ways".

That said, the US still has a massive manufacturing industry, Mexico even larger, and of course there are places like India, and the entire rest of the world...

So China has zero stranglehold on "how to make things". Just current infrastructure to do so.

Note, the real issue is the economics. No China, and if no alternative cheap source of labour, mean massive, massive inflation.

Re: Chinese embassy lobbies U.S. business to oppose China bills

#66

Post by thaumasiotes » Sat, Nov 13, 2021, 10:13 AM UTC

legulere wrote: post #50

fspeech wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chinese ports are automated. American ones much less so. China has much less resistance to automation from unions.

As a European, unions being against automation seems like a typical anti-union propaganda point. Can you show me some examples where unions acted out against automatisation?

> unions being against automation seems like a typical anti-union propaganda point.

Yes, when you systematically support terrible ideas, of course your support for terrible ideas will be a common attack against you. What's the surprise there?

Re: Chinese embassy lobbies U.S. business to oppose China bills

#67

Post by bobthepanda » Sat, Nov 13, 2021, 10:20 AM UTC

b112 wrote: post #65

liketochill wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To know how to automate a job, you have to know how to do the job, and all the physics behind it, plus the automation skills. If there are no factories in your country that even produce that product there isn’t going to be a supply of people to automate the job. The automation jobs and tech that goes with that will follow the manual labour jobs and factories they are in.

There are still those alive, who can be consulted about the "old ways". That said, the US still has a massive manufacturing industry, Mexico even larger, and of course there are places like India, and the entire rest of the world... So China has zero stranglehold on "how to make things". Just current infrastructure to do so. Note, the real issue is the economics. No China, and if no alternative cheap source of labour…

China hasn't been "cheap source of labor" for a while. Most of the truly low-end stuff has moved to places like Vietnam and Bangladesh.

Re: Chinese embassy lobbies U.S. business to oppose China bills

#68

Post by legulere » Sat, Nov 13, 2021, 10:28 AM UTC

thaumasiotes wrote: post #66

legulere wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a European, unions being against automation seems like a typical anti-union propaganda point. Can you show me some examples where unions acted out against automatisation?

> unions being against automation seems like a typical anti-union propaganda point. Yes, when you systematically support terrible ideas, of course your support for terrible ideas will be a common attack against you. What's the surprise there?

It's just that in Germany you more often hear demands for people to be requalified to do other jobs or to send people earlier in pension than outright opposition to progress. In general unions seem to be very interested here in the well-being of the companies, because that helps them get high wages and secure jobs. On the other hand companies also seem way more fine with collaboration with unions (not that there is no conflict either).

Re: Chinese embassy lobbies U.S. business to oppose China bills

#69

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Nov 13, 2021, 10:30 AM UTC

legulere wrote: post #50

fspeech wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chinese ports are automated. American ones much less so. China has much less resistance to automation from unions.

As a European, unions being against automation seems like a typical anti-union propaganda point. Can you show me some examples where unions acted out against automatisation?

[deleted]

Re: Chinese embassy lobbies U.S. business to oppose China bills

#70

Post by nabla9 » Sat, Nov 13, 2021, 10:34 AM UTC

The U.S. has the best system of governance in the world.

The members of Congress are selected by U.S. citizens and funded by international U.S based companies operating globally. This creates a delicate balance where the interests and goals of all major economies are balanced. The U.S citizens maintain full control of who they vote. At the same time the influencing working trough their mind, and trough their representatives ensures what they decide is for the benefit of the all.

A small fraction of relatively ignorant individuals can vote freely with selfish motives, but the system still works as a global government. Everyone in the world who controls market access or money can have a voice.