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Debit cards are hidden financial infrastructure

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Re: Debit cards are hidden financial infrastructure

#191

Post by barsonme »

Nursie wrote: post #158
just-ok wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the biggest wins from credit cards (imo, of course) is reward programs. Getting a 1-3% discount on purchases is pretty nice (plus, obviously, fraud protection, etc.). However, some issuers are using crypto to claw back at this perk; for example, the Coinbase debit card can give you 4% back.

I find it hilarious that Americans will tell you about the great discount/cashback they get, then in the next post crypto advocates will tell you that crypto currency can avoid the insane credit card fees. It's almost like the two things are related, but few people seem to link them... In Europe and Australia, caps have largely fixed the latter, at the expense of the former. Seems better all around.

Insane credit card fees? What? Most cards do not have a fee.

And for those that do, it’s very easy to recoup much more than the fee in rewards. For example, Chase Sapphire is one of (or actually the) the most expensive cards at $550/year. But even then it’s very easy to recoup much more in rewards.

Re: Debit cards are hidden financial infrastructure

#192

Post by desmosxxx »

zaphirplane wrote: post #140
rjzzleep wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's transaction reordering? 1. have $10 in your checking 2. pay $9 for steak 3. fill account with $500 4. buy sausage for $2 bank reorders it as 1. have $10 in your checking 2. pay $9 for steak 3. buy sausage for $2 4. charge overdraft 5. count $500 deposit Is that what banks would do? I faintly remember that really old accounts I had in Germany had overdraft capability, but for all newer(last decade or so) accoun…

This thread assumes intentional reordering not that the transaction arrive at the bank out of order I have transactions that show up out of order to the event time. Thou I wouldn’t put it past some smaller banks in low regulation geographies

I think it's pretty well documented that intentional reordering happens and still happens

Re: Debit cards are hidden financial infrastructure

#193

Post by wruza »

DJBunnies wrote: post #119
iratewizard wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With or without a credit card it's still spending what you don't have. The credit card just makes it easier to ignore the fact that you're in dire financial straights.

Should need.

I don’t understand this one (in a context), can you explain?

Re: Debit cards are hidden financial infrastructure

#194

Post by nottorp »

dustintrex wrote: post #156
morsch wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe they're free where you are, but apparently in Germany banks, if they support it at all, charge 0.5 EUR on average. I've never used it.

Technically the regulation says that charging is allowed, it just has to be the same flat fee across the entire SEPA zone, whether it's domestic or international. Most banks found domestic fees unpalatable, so they just made everything free. In this, as many other things when it comes to e-payments, Germany seems to be a bit of an outlier.

Flat fee is the keyword. Not a percentage like with cards.

Re: Debit cards are hidden financial infrastructure

#195

Post by coconut_crab »

latchkey wrote: post #77

In Vietnam, even the 'credit cards' are 'debt cards'. There is no concept of a credit score there (or a legal way to really make people pay up a debt), so they came up with this work around. To get a credit card, you have to carry the total amount of 'credit' as a time deposit in your account that you can't touch.

It's not entirely true. Some banks only issue credit cards if you receive salary via their bank account or have a deposit there (mostly state owned banks) but other have no such requirement. Also they already have a credit score database up and running (CIC).

Re: Debit cards are hidden financial infrastructure

#196

Post by lottin »

smabie wrote: post #80
p2t2p wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Australian here. Don’t use credit card, setup a separate account for bills, direct debit everything from there, don’t keep anything big on your debit card and use it with Apple Pay everywhere. No fraud, no fees, no complex things and rules to remember.

Why would you ever not want to put something on a cc? It's quite literally free money (rewards/points + you can delay payments for a month and pay no interest)

As a matter of principle, I don't accept "gifts" from a bank or financial institution, because there's no such thing.

Re: Debit cards are hidden financial infrastructure

#197

Post by numair »

R0b0t1 wrote: post #166
numair wrote: post #43

The beginning of this article is a fairy tale that ignores what used to be one of the biggest drivers of revenue for banks: overdraft fees. Maybe the HN crowd has never been in a situation where they were auto-billed into a negative balance, which then caused an overdraft fee that then further drove their balance into negative territory, but this was a weekly/monthly fiasco for millions of Americans. I was once in a…

If your colleague had thrown him out of the window the world would be a better place. Think on that.

We later learned that the executive in question hung out with Jeffrey Epstein... So... You might be on to something.

Re: Debit cards are hidden financial infrastructure

#198

Post by mdp2021 »

desmosxxx wrote: post #192
zaphirplane wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This thread assumes intentional reordering not that the transaction arrive at the bank out of order I have transactions that show up out of order to the event time. Thou I wouldn’t put it past some smaller banks in low regulation geographies

I think it's pretty well documented that intentional reordering happens and still happens

Should not that cause legal action - duly and factually?

Re: Debit cards are hidden financial infrastructure

#199

Post by xdennis »

eyelidlessness wrote: post #76
numair wrote: post #43

The beginning of this article is a fairy tale that ignores what used to be one of the biggest drivers of revenue for banks: overdraft fees. Maybe the HN crowd has never been in a situation where they were auto-billed into a negative balance, which then caused an overdraft fee that then further drove their balance into negative territory, but this was a weekly/monthly fiasco for millions of Americans. I was once in a…

Overdrafts were the second thing that came to mind, a decade into clawing my way out of poverty and just plain being broke. The first was the scam of debit cards and secured credit cards being treated fundamentally differently. They both operate basically the same way for customers (you’re only spending your own money, it’s not credit in the lending sense), but debit cards are a profit center with no credit reporting…

Debit cards are a fraud? Living on borrowed money is a fraud.

Re: Debit cards are hidden financial infrastructure

#200

Post by mdp2021 »

eyelidlessness wrote: post #135
eyelidlessness wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My last bank (US Bank, don’t bank with them) did this in a way where in one day where I had only one transaction which could overdraft they charged 6 overdrafts even though my net would have been positive. If I wasn’t (at the time) skilled at ~~kicking and screaming~~ advocating for myself I would have been out $180 plus whatever 30 cents they had calculated I went negative. Which (again at the time) was the differen…

Oh since I’m naming names. The bank before that, Wells Fargo, honored a check I wrote > 2 years earlier. Sure, I wrote it and I was good for it at the time. I forgot about it. Maybe I could’ve left that money in limbo but at a certain point I assumed my moderately wealthy aunt wasn’t gonna cash it. Well it doesn’t matter what I assumed, the law said the check was no longer valid. When Wells Fargo honored it and overd…

Again (to other cases in this page, ref. reordered transactions): should not this be a case for legal action?

A contract has a time limit, one part arbitrarily extends it and claims rights: this is completely absurd.

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