I wonder if the onset of globalization and offshoring US factories to China on top of Citizens United will be remembered as the US's "Fall of Rome" moment. The US essentially allowed the government to be bought and paid for by foreign entities and is relying on said countries for most manufactured goods. So now the other country can essentially say "Our laws are your laws otherwise we're not going manufacture your go…
In my opinion the US not capitalizing on China taking the undesirable, low-skill labor is the miss. The inescapable future of humanity is full automation of low-skill (and potentially higher skill) jobs, especially manufacturing. Rather than lament China taking these on before the robots could get to them and pining for a long-departed past, America could have used this huge head start as an advantage and shaped soci…
Chinese embassy lobbies U.S. business to oppose China bills
51–60 of 144 posts
Re: Chinese embassy lobbies U.S. business to oppose China bills
#52Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think both Citizen's United and the allowance of asymmetric trade with China (e.g. China's currency manipulation, IP theft, restrictions on companies operating in China, etc.) are both symptoms of a much larger problem. The U.S. is being dismantled by the capitalist / owner class for personal profit. Very few decisions are made in the government that promote the long-term health of the system. This trend spans the…
Not a view I share but I think the general attitude of this so-called "owner" class roughly this: The average American isn't deserving enough of America's bounty, so why should they be entitled to any of it? If you want something you should work for it; you aren't entitled to it by place of birth.
Re: Chinese embassy lobbies U.S. business to oppose China bills
#53Re: Chinese embassy lobbies U.S. business to oppose China bills
#54I don't understand why America, long a champion of immigration, doesn't open the floodgates back up. We could onshore factories and staff them from all over the world. Pay workers wages comparable to what they would get from working in factories at home (ie. not "US wages" since we can't compete on cost with China, Vietnam, etc.), but give them decent hours, a housing stipend, education for their kids, and a promise…
OK so you get 50 million people from Africa, India and other parts of Asia. Then what? What if half choose to immediately move to New York or Los Angeles to find a better job? Are you planning on keeping the 50 million factory workers imprisoned as second-class citizens in mid-West factories for the first 5 years? 10 years?
Re: Chinese embassy lobbies U.S. business to oppose China bills
#55Earlier quoted context omitted.
If it is the “fall of Rome moment”, I’m not exactly worried. It took nearly a millennium for Rome to fall — and even that depends on whether or not you consider the Holy Roman Empire or the Ottoman Empire to be true successor states.
So basically you dont care what happens when you die? Sounds like boomer logic. "A society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shade they know they shall never sit."
Re: Chinese embassy lobbies U.S. business to oppose China bills
#56Re: Chinese embassy lobbies U.S. business to oppose China bills
#57I don't understand why America, long a champion of immigration, doesn't open the floodgates back up. We could onshore factories and staff them from all over the world. Pay workers wages comparable to what they would get from working in factories at home (ie. not "US wages" since we can't compete on cost with China, Vietnam, etc.), but give them decent hours, a housing stipend, education for their kids, and a promise…
Because the US didn't have a giant welfare system when the 'floodgates' were open. Immigrants moved to New York or other places, and worked exceptionally hard to provide for themselves or were forced to return home. Now, they can move to San Francisco and have the city spend thousands of dollars on them for free. It's nearly impossible to starve on US streets today, because there's free food on nearly every street. T…
But what I cant look past is the audacity to suggest and eveb imply that historical migrants from Europe(mostly) worked hard and had some magically higher IQ. What? If even the academic elite, who pride themselves in their rational objectivity, can whitewash history to that extent - it is worrisome. Truly frightening.
Just chalk it up to being the worlds pop cultural, economic center - and deal with it. People have always migrated to the country/state where the opportunity to prosper is greatest. It's osmosis and you can't really stop it until and unless the US becomes a third world country devoid of wealth, freedom and opportunity.
Re: Chinese embassy lobbies U.S. business to oppose China bills
#58Earlier quoted context omitted.
Chinese ports are automated. American ones much less so. China has much less resistance to automation from unions.
As a European, unions being against automation seems like a typical anti-union propaganda point. Can you show me some examples where unions acted out against automatisation?
https://ilaunion.org/2021/05/latest-long-beach-terminal-auto...
"TTI would become the fourth automated container terminal in Southern California. Total Terminals International’s (TTI’s) decision this week to automate its 385-acre Pier T terminal in Long Beach sets up a classic struggle between terminal operator employers and the International Longshore and Warehouse Union (ILWU).
"The union opposes the project on the grounds it will eliminate some dockworker jobs, but employers say automation is needed to increase capacity and keep the ports of Long Beach and Los Angeles competitive." [...] ILWU Local 10 in 2019 tried unsuccessfully to convince the city of Los Angeles to block a construction project for the APM Terminals automation project.
Here is the AP:
https://apnews.com/article/49e7d246e6984738b107a9ae0e25f954
The uproar comes as a facility operated for Denmark’s Moller-Maersk by APM Terminals plans to use the battery-powered, self-guided cargo handling equipment, which APM contends is a response to the ports’ clean air rules. [...] Union members, however, fear the equipment will spread to all terminals and hundreds of jobs will be lost. They contend APM could use manned electric vehicles.
Las Vegas Culinary union strike:
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/american-workers-jobs-inequal...
https://eandt.theiet.org/content/articles/2018/05/50-000-las...
Over 50,000 union workers in Las Vegas, Nevada, USA, are set to go on strike if new contracts are not settled. One of the main drivers for the strike action is the fear that robots will gradually displace human operators.
The Culinary Union is just one of many labor unions grappling with how to respond to the spread of automation and artificial intelligence – whether driverless trucks or lifting and sorting machines at warehouses. Alongside the fears automation poses to workers, there are concerns that it is also undermining the very organizations designed to support them: labor unions.
Harry Katz, former dean of the Cornell University School of Industrial and Labor Relations, said automation has reduced unions’ might in many industries by shrinking their membership and making it easier for companies to break or survive a strike. Organized labor is likely to lose further power and membership as a result of the ongoing wave of automation, he said.
* Boeing machinists' union:
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/boeing-machinists-union-tussl...
Union leaders are concerned about a Boeing campaign known as “Quality Transformation,” which relies on automated processes such as robotic riveting and precision machining to cut down on manufacturing defects. Boeing says such processes make airplane assembly more “mistake-proof.”
Aero Mechanic said Boeing laid out its plans and their potential effect on quality-assurance jobs in November.
“Per the PowerPoint Boeing presented to our union, Boeing estimates their plan will impact 451 QA jobs next year and potentially a similar amount in 2020,” the newspaper reported. “This will not only place a heavier burden on our mechanics but will also eliminate the second set of eyes on thousands of work packages.”
* 1953-55 UAW strikes at Ford over automation
see this historical case study:
http://www.autolife.umd.umich.edu/Labor/L_Casestudy/L_casest...
Rising to speak in support of the automation resolution, Alfred Granakis, Local 1250’s convention delegate, stated, “I just want to say a couple of words on this because we have got 78 people in Cleveland doing the work of 770 people from the Rouge and we are out-producing them with 78 people. . . . I am representing more machines than I am men in Cleveland. The thing I would like to see is this changed just a little bit.” He then chided UAW President Reuther: “I wish the Executive Board would be instructed to formulate a policy and inform the local union affected by it.” Reuther responded, “We are completely aware and fully conscious of the problem which the resolution covers. . . . The Ford engine plant is the best example today where they have whole batteries of machines with a fellow on one end and another fellow half a block away with the whole thing mechanized.”
After the UAW convention Granakis again urgently wrote Reuther, “As you are well aware, the problem of production standards is one of a recurring nature and needs eternal vigilance, particularly with the reactionary Ford Motor Company.” In UAW Local 1250’s contract negotiations, automation continued to prove the most intractable issue. “As for the problem of Automation,” Granakis told the UAW President, “except for saying ‘no’ and insisting on more men on the job, I have taken no other position until I hear from you.” In order to capture the Ford negotiators’ attention, and possibly Reuther’s too, Local 1250 leaders sought and received formal approval for a strike authorization request from the Cleveland area UAW regional director.
In addition to high rates of absenteeism and numerous shop-floor grievances, [..] an overwhelming majority (almost 90 percent) of the engine-plant workers voted to authorize a strike in the midst of collective bargaining over automation problems. In 1953 the Ford Cleveland engine plant and foundry had four unauthorized work stoppages; in 1954 there were two unauthorized walkouts. These wildcat strikes idled 1,970 men and resulted in 8,439 lost man-hours. These walkouts comprised the tip of the iceberg of worker discontent over automation.
Re: Chinese embassy lobbies U.S. business to oppose China bills
#59Earlier quoted context omitted.
If it is the “fall of Rome moment”, I’m not exactly worried. It took nearly a millennium for Rome to fall — and even that depends on whether or not you consider the Holy Roman Empire or the Ottoman Empire to be true successor states.
Ah yes, the early middle ages that everyone agrees was a wonderful time, full of peace, economic prosperity, and progress /s.
Re: Chinese embassy lobbies U.S. business to oppose China bills
#60until china starts moving for better rights for their citizens, i am afraid they should be held at arms length. cannot trust a government that lies that over 1 million people are just being "re-educationed" and "happy" and "want to be there", there is a reason for distrust and it's not "xenophobic" to point out the regimes bs, the people of china deserve a better government. don't even get me started on hong kong. th…