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Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

jacquesmattheij.com

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Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#451

Post by leeoniya »

> I hope this article will inspire people to look at e-bikes as potentially commuter car replacement, to send Bosch and other e-bike technology manufacturers a message that if they won’t supply what people need that they are going to have to live with people hacking their stuff and to get people to comment on the way the thing works, what they would do with it and how it could be improved or how I could work better/safer on stuff like this.

i bought a Onewheel-XR+ a few months ago and then found a lot of reddit threads about how the mfg DRM'd the controllers to prevent people from adding longer range batteries and buildig their own apps to do diagnoatics over bluetooth. they sent cease/desists to several prominent modders.

it's super sad. the modding community was very vibrant until they kneecapped it via firmware updates.

their android app is bloated 42MB crap with social features that requires an internet connection and google's framework to connect over bluetooth to the board under your feet to read battery levels, change riding modes, control headlights, etc. previously there were third party apps now they released their new GT boards a month ago with extended range (and much heavier). the new Pint GT looks really compelling, so really torn about giving these sh*theads more of my money :(

https://old.reddit.com/r/onewheel/comments/l2vhra/future_mot...

https://old.reddit.com/r/onewheel/comments/kcl816/4209_or_ne...

Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#452

Post by jacquesm »

licensekey wrote: post #449

What's HN favorite fancy-ish ebike from the likes of VanMoof or Cowboy or something else? I saw one of the bikes sell for as high as $5k which, provided how many very nice-looking alternatives at 50% the cost there are seams unreasonable.

I bought this one second hand for half of what they go new for. It was sold as though it had 1800 km on it, deep readout of the controller revealed that I got scammed (it has done 11000 km), but I still think it's a pretty good deal, I'll just need to swap out some bearings a bit sooner.

The Stromer range is very nice, super pricey, Klever as well.

I haven't tried or looked at other s-pedelecs. Regular e-bikes there are so many types and brands that it is hard to say what works and what doesn't without just trying them.

This store has quite a few brands of s-pedelec:

https://www.speedpedelecs.com/

But I'd never buy a new one, I think they are simply way too expensive, it's just another bike with a small electric motor and these prices are ridiculous, you can buy cars for that kind of money.

Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#453

Post by rootusrootus »

femto wrote: post #446
jacquesm wrote: post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, this is definitely a good point. There is an arms race like effect at work here, if you could de-escalate that lighter vehicles would be much better.

One wonders whether there is a place for "Active Crumple Zones"? Instead of a car having to weigh more that the opposition, it carries an explosive charge in it's nose, which is used to provide a burst of forward momentum to the leading edge of the car during a crash, preventing it from being forced back into the passenger compartment. One can imagine refinements, such as inertial sensing and a feedback loop to contr…

> "virtual" weight of the light vehicle matches the vehicle that it is colliding with.

I imagine physics would intrude at some point and make this a non-starter.

Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#454

Post by jacquesm »

femto wrote: post #446
jacquesm wrote: post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, this is definitely a good point. There is an arms race like effect at work here, if you could de-escalate that lighter vehicles would be much better.

One wonders whether there is a place for "Active Crumple Zones"? Instead of a car having to weigh more that the opposition, it carries an explosive charge in it's nose, which is used to provide a burst of forward momentum to the leading edge of the car during a crash, preventing it from being forced back into the passenger compartment. One can imagine refinements, such as inertial sensing and a feedback loop to contr…

Oh that's evil :)

Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#455

Post by billylindeman »

leeoniya wrote: post #451

> I hope this article will inspire people to look at e-bikes as potentially commuter car replacement, to send Bosch and other e-bike technology manufacturers a message that if they won’t supply what people need that they are going to have to live with people hacking their stuff and to get people to comment on the way the thing works, what they would do with it and how it could be improved or how I could work better/s…

LOL I built the first version of their android app back in the day. Can't speak to why they've been going after modders, but it's likely from a liability / legal standpoint. At the end of the day I still love their products and currently own an XR (may upgrade to a GT next spring!).

At least for the earlier versions all the info was published as standard BLE descriptors, so building a third party lightweight app for that is fairly straight forward. Not sure what they're doing these days, but if you wanted to investigate LightBlue is a great app for digging into BLE devices ;)

Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#456

Post by jacquesm »

rootusrootus wrote: post #453
femto wrote: post #446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One wonders whether there is a place for "Active Crumple Zones"? Instead of a car having to weigh more that the opposition, it carries an explosive charge in it's nose, which is used to provide a burst of forward momentum to the leading edge of the car during a crash, preventing it from being forced back into the passenger compartment. One can imagine refinements, such as inertial sensing and a feedback loop to contr…

> "virtual" weight of the light vehicle matches the vehicle that it is colliding with. I imagine physics would intrude at some point and make this a non-starter.

Collision with a pedestrian as well.

Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#457

Post by boogies »

femto wrote: post #446
jacquesm wrote: post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, this is definitely a good point. There is an arms race like effect at work here, if you could de-escalate that lighter vehicles would be much better.

One wonders whether there is a place for "Active Crumple Zones"? Instead of a car having to weigh more that the opposition, it carries an explosive charge in it's nose, which is used to provide a burst of forward momentum to the leading edge of the car during a crash, preventing it from being forced back into the passenger compartment. One can imagine refinements, such as inertial sensing and a feedback loop to contr…

How powerful and effective could that be without launching the lighter vehicle backwards with dangerous force?

Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#458

Post by leeoniya »

billylindeman wrote: post #455
leeoniya wrote: post #451

> I hope this article will inspire people to look at e-bikes as potentially commuter car replacement, to send Bosch and other e-bike technology manufacturers a message that if they won’t supply what people need that they are going to have to live with people hacking their stuff and to get people to comment on the way the thing works, what they would do with it and how it could be improved or how I could work better/s…

LOL I built the first version of their android app back in the day. Can't speak to why they've been going after modders, but it's likely from a liability / legal standpoint. At the end of the day I still love their products and currently own an XR (may upgrade to a GT next spring!). At least for the earlier versions all the info was published as standard BLE descriptors, so building a third party lightweight app for…

> but it's likely from a liability / legal standpoint

sure. but also the same reason mfgs dont want their modded/refurbished/re-sold prev-gen products competing with their new products.

Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#459

Post by m0zg »

rjbwork wrote: post #145
jacquesm wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the USA the situation is much more risky than here. I don't like riding in traffic mostly because drivers tend to have a short fuse for anything that isn't exactly at the limit, but on bike paths everything works just fine. The problem is that s-pedelecs are technically lumped in with the scooters, even though there is no throttle and there is absolutely no way you are going to sustain 40 Kph+ for anything but a v…

I have an e-bike and I disagree with your assertions. I'm a fat asthmatic and I have absolutely no problem maintaining 40kph for long stretches of time on my bike. The fastest I've done on it (on a large hill but still) is 42.7MPH (~68Kph). Average cruising speed on flat land can easily be 30-33mph(48-53kph). Not all e-bikes are capable of this, but they are certainly not some kind of rare expensive impossibility - m…

I hope you realize you're one pebble or pavement imperfection away from breaking every bone in your body at those speeds.

Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#460

Post by awakeasleep »

jacquesm wrote: post #91
aeharding wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Makes sense for seasonal and recreational riders. We both ride year round though almost daily for transportation. As for discharging below 15%, Bosch's firmware is pretty smart about this. It keeps a reserve that's used for powering lights for a few hours after the assist cuts off.

Yes, that's at 5% state-of-charge, which is a bit low. If you charge up to 100% and discharge to that cut-off point you will get 300 to 400 cycles out of your battery. If you go from 80% state-of-charge down to 20% then you can get thousands of cycles out of your batteries. That's one of the reasons I designed that pack as large as it is: to stay within the 80-to-20 range on a 100 km trip.

The “charge to 80%” advice isnt generally useful to PEV riders in 2021

It is true that a lithium _cell_ lasts longer when charged to 80%, but a _battery of cells_ must be “balanced” and PEV BMSes only do that balancing in the constant voltage stage of charging in the hours after the charger indicates the battery has been fully recharged.

For anyone just learning about this, an unbalanced cell is usually the cause of a battery going “dead” and can even be the cause of a fire. Very few batteries die because they have outlived their charge cycle count.

This is different than your cell phone which has at most two cells (but usually one) in the battery. In that case, the BMS can monitor and charge individual cells. In a PEV the BMS usually monitors several groups of cells, and can not charge individual cells.

This can change in the future! I believe electric car BMSes generally do it. But its an added expense and PEV manufacturers have not started spending the money. Ill be happy if another commenter can correct me and show that there is some manufacturer who is ahead of the curve.

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