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Google Outage in Europe

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Re: Google Outage in Europe

#171

Post by confidantlake »

chrisseaton wrote: post #164
secondaryacct wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the army is a cost center! The workers have some money shaved off their salary to pay for an army that allows delinquents and half-disabled to pew-pew guns in the forest, leaving them in peace. It's not comparable to a productive entreprise that needs to build things for people or perish. For instance, if Google fails and cant profit, it cant just shoot at their client until they pay. Your organisation can.

> It's not comparable to a productive entreprise that needs to build things for people or perish. Well we had to build an Army to win against fascism in the Second World War or we all would have perished. And 'perished' means literally dead or subject to fascism, not just going out of business.

WW2 was 70+ years ago. The USSR fell 30+ years ago. Military budgets are still incredibly high. The army as it is today does not need to be that efficient. And even during WW2 times the US did not face a credible threat of invasion. The last time the US faced an invasion on the mainland was during the war of 1812.

Re: Google Outage in Europe

#172

Post by fshbbdssbbgdd »

xcambar wrote: post #51
ddalex wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Googler here, not speaking on the behalf of the company, my opinions are my own People do absolutely NOT get fired over incidents. Making mistakes is human. An incident will prompt a review of the systems and safeguards in place to prevent such an incident, much like an airline incident investigation - basically "somebody fat-fingered it" is never the answer, postmortems are always blameless EDIT: now that I think of…

> Googler here, not speaking on the behalf of the company, my opinions are my own Why do employees at big tech names (FAANG et al.) are so often so cautious as to include this as a foreword everywhere? Twitter bios are full of that, for instance. It is crazy to me; who would expect anything else that our opinions being your own and nothing more? Who would expect that your word (with all due respect) is worth anything…

They want to mention their employer to gain authority in the discussion, but since mentioning their employer is a legal/PR risk, they need to follow it up with a disclaimer (this only partially mitigates the risk, but it’s worth it to get the brag in).

Re: Google Outage in Europe

#173

Post by chrisseaton »

confidantlake wrote: post #171
chrisseaton wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's not comparable to a productive entreprise that needs to build things for people or perish. Well we had to build an Army to win against fascism in the Second World War or we all would have perished. And 'perished' means literally dead or subject to fascism, not just going out of business.

WW2 was 70+ years ago. The USSR fell 30+ years ago. Military budgets are still incredibly high. The army as it is today does not need to be that efficient. And even during WW2 times the US did not face a credible threat of invasion. The last time the US faced an invasion on the mainland was during the war of 1812.

> The army as it is today does not need to be that efficient.

You want the Army to be... less efficient? Spend more for less capability?

Re: Google Outage in Europe

#174

Post by confidantlake »

chrisseaton wrote: post #173
confidantlake wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WW2 was 70+ years ago. The USSR fell 30+ years ago. Military budgets are still incredibly high. The army as it is today does not need to be that efficient. And even during WW2 times the US did not face a credible threat of invasion. The last time the US faced an invasion on the mainland was during the war of 1812.

> The army as it is today does not need to be that efficient. You want the Army to be... less efficient? Spend more for less capability?

No I mean that for the US army today the downside to the army being inefficient is that money is wasted. Not great, but not a disaster. For a different country that could mean the country gets invaded or the government collapses (like Afghanistan).

Re: Google Outage in Europe

#175

Post by not1ofU »

samhw wrote: post #111
gsich wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Especially when it's not an opinion.

In fairness, 'opinion' is a horrendously vague and ill-defined word. It does double duty as (i) 'normative value' and (ii) 'personal understanding of the descriptive facts', which two senses are constantly confused - for example right here. That's why we constantly get "it's just my opinion" used in reference to type-ii opinions (personal understanding of descriptive fact), when it's only really appropriate to type-i…

"Many conversations would be far clearer if it were abandoned in favour of more precise language, IMPUOTDF"... um whats IMPUOTDF? I did try to google it, but only this post was found.

Re: Google Outage in Europe

#176

Post by bamboozled »

kroolik wrote: post #9

There were outages around the same time last year. Somebody in the HN thread commented back then that the employees evaluation and promotion window ends around december/eoy, thus more releases are made. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_services_outages

There is also a lot of pressure on engineers around black Friday and Cyber Monday to get things done before any change embargoes come into place. This is coming from someone who just worked 16 hours straight to scale things before a change freeze.

I don't know how or if this would impact Google, but I'm sure someone there has at least thought about those dates.

Re: Google Outage in Europe

#177

Post by NaturalPhallacy »

judge2020 wrote: post #165
NaturalPhallacy wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want to smack whomever invented time zones. Everyone is bad at them. Trading desks, international trade offices, space related offices all have a set of clocks on the wall because even really smart people just suck at figuring out time zones. I even use https://everytimezone.com/ in lieu of a set of clocks. What a needless complication. I wish we could all just switch to UTC and stop daylight savings time.

I can't imagine anyone taking kindly to a change as big as eradicating time zones. Get rid of DST, yes, but only if the U.S. goes up an hour (the extra sunlight at 6pm during DST is nice).

I can imagine hordes of programmers everywhere taking kindly to it. It's a simpler system.

Re: Google Outage in Europe

#178

Post by dukeyukey »

chrisseaton wrote: post #47
kroolik wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you fire an engineer you have just spent millions to train?

What tech company spends millions on training anyone?

Someone who just cost their company millions in revenues is gonna be _extremely_ careful not to make the same mistake again. Hence, million-dollsr training.

Re: Google Outage in Europe

#179

Post by i5heu »

exikyut wrote: post #105
i5heu wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right? My private website on my RPI is running now 2 Years without a problem and only minimal downtime due to rebooting for the new kernels. It is amazing how much uptime you can achieve with a 5$ Computer in comparison to a 1730000000000$ (1,73 tera $) Company. Even if you compensate for dynamic content.

(Google is currently processing multiple terabits of traffic per second using several billion dollars' worth of distributed infrastructure.)

Yeah but google has also 27,169 software engineers.

Re: Google Outage in Europe

#180

Post by radishingr »

jankeymeulen wrote: post #71
de6u99er wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people are definitely not gatting a raise.

More likely someone actually will. A blameless postmortem will be written, and the people that will fix the bug or systems issue will have something to work on with high visibility and high impact, which tends to translate in good performance ratings. (Googler, opinions are my own)

"Impact: fixed processes that led to 8 hr outage" seems like an easy case to make.
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