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I Got Fired from Amazon as a Software Development Engineer

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Re: I Got Fired from Amazon as a Software Development Engineer

#61

Post by tinyhouse »

999900000999 wrote: post #25

These stories scare me. Particularly from Amazon where you don't get most of your TC until year 3. At least at Netflix they pay more cash and if I get fired after a year I have it in my bank.

That's a false statement. Amazon plans your 4 years compensation when you join with the idea that you are paid pretty equally every year. The difference is that in year 1 & 2 TC is mostly cash while in year 3 & 4 a big component of the TC is RSUs which replace the cash bonuses from year 1 & 2 (it's called bonus but it's paid regularly and not in large sums; I think they do it to keep the base salary low). The reason whey TC is often higher in year 3 & 4 is stock appreciation, but that's not guaranteed. If the stock goes up 10% every year you wouldn't see much difference.

You can think about it this way. When you join, Amazon takes part of the money they need to pay you in year 3 & 4 and buy with it Amazon stock which you can sell only in year 3 & 4. (one difference is that you pay income tax on it when you receive it and not capital gain tax)

Re: I Got Fired from Amazon as a Software Development Engineer

#62

Post by hackernews777 »

tinyhouse wrote: post #55
Sparkyte wrote: post #10

Amazon is actually really hard to get fired from. I knew this one guy who used to binge drink during while working all day. He only got fired after he brought production down for the third time in six months. I left because I had higher pay offers. I'm an idiot to say the least, but a person who can acknowledge their faults is likely to be someone who gets hired persistently because they know to address it.

That's actually very false. Amazon is not hard to get fired from, but it takes time since there's a mandatory pip process (for performance based firing) like in many tech companies (about 4 months in the US, longer in some European countries; it's often shorter if the candidate agrees to take large severance and leave).

I thought he was referring to the fact you don't have to be particularly clever or competent person to keep your job. Amazon isn't known for firing people on the spot for honest mistakes (CoE gets filed and life goes on). It's usually more along the lines of people are not doing the work they were assigned to do.

Re: I Got Fired from Amazon as a Software Development Engineer

#63

Post by IshKebab »

hackernews777 wrote: post #37
xwowsersx wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what is a racial advancement?

Making some sort of harassment with a racial component that's on par with sexual harassment. Despite all the DEI policies and whatever, the baseline for termination is pretty much the same as most employers, off color remarks are not getting you fired but putting down a fellow employee certainly can.

Ha I think they were just pointing out that a sexual advance is a real phrase but a "racial advance" isn't and makes no sense. It's a bit subtle.

Re: I Got Fired from Amazon as a Software Development Engineer

#64

Post by 999900000999 »

tinyhouse wrote: post #61
999900000999 wrote: post #25

These stories scare me. Particularly from Amazon where you don't get most of your TC until year 3. At least at Netflix they pay more cash and if I get fired after a year I have it in my bank.

That's a false statement. Amazon plans your 4 years compensation when you join with the idea that you are paid pretty equally every year. The difference is that in year 1 & 2 TC is mostly cash while in year 3 & 4 a big component of the TC is RSUs which replace the cash bonuses from year 1 & 2 (it's called bonus but it's paid regularly and not in large sums; I think they do it to keep the base salary low). The reason…

Wait, so in year 1 and 2 I'm getting large cash bonuses? That's still inferior to getting cash upfront.

Say after 10 months you have a medical issue, that means you quit to focus on healing and lose your bonus.

Re: I Got Fired from Amazon as a Software Development Engineer

#65

Post by hackernews777 »

throwntoday wrote: post #48
poulsbohemian wrote: post #14

Sounds like the biggest mistake he made was lashing out at a likely in-over-their-head manager. We are only getting one side, but sounds like he was trying to do the right things to either overcome the challenges and/or create boundaries, but he may have been hired to be a sacrificial lamb. In my consulting times, I was brought into something a lot like this for the purpose of being fired so that the CTO could save t…

The funny thing is that Amazon really stresses their leadership principles and I recall one of them being "have a backbone", basically to disagree with anyone if you know you're right. I can see how he snapped over his moron manager bringing gender into things.

The other half of that is Disagree and Commit. (https://www.amazon.jobs/en/principles) The concept being that supposedly everyone is free to make their best case for a course of action, but once a decision has been made everyone is expected to fully commit to the decision.

Re: I Got Fired from Amazon as a Software Development Engineer

#66

Post by kempbellt »

hackandtrip wrote: post #59
Sparkyte wrote: post #10

Amazon is actually really hard to get fired from. I knew this one guy who used to binge drink during while working all day. He only got fired after he brought production down for the third time in six months. I left because I had higher pay offers. I'm an idiot to say the least, but a person who can acknowledge their faults is likely to be someone who gets hired persistently because they know to address it.

The fact that an individual can bring production down is 1000% a problem in the process; outages should not attributed to single commits but to a series of problems in the process. Just saying this since the number of times someone being production down should not be cause of shame or firing

Someone has to have the keys to the kingdom. Ideally, multiple people do - bus factor.

If no one can bring production down this is also a problem. If only one person can, better hope they don't get hit by a bus, or take a vacation, or rage quit.

Re: I Got Fired from Amazon as a Software Development Engineer

#67

Post by sumthinprofound »

poulsbohemian wrote: post #36
cvhashim wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You see the sacrificial lamb thing with contractors/consultants because they won’t sue for being put in a bad situation and fired afterwards but not sure if it’s too common with Full time engineers. Amazon is just a toxic workplace and I recommend all my fellow engineers avoid that place like the plague. I’ve heard too many horror stories like OPs.

Early on in my career, about year three or so like this guy, I got hired into a similar situation - gig wasn't what the company said. The key was to stay calm and set boundaries at every step. If you let it get emotional, it creates an excuse for management to turn you into the scapegoat. If you instead act like the consummate team player, over communicate, etc, it become hard for anyone to actually fault you. It mig…

> stay calm and set boundaries at every step

absolutely. and document all conversations. Staying calm is an acquired skill that I've tried to mentor in to my hires, and it is even more important to maintain if you are being set up to fail instead of supported to succeed.

Re: I Got Fired from Amazon as a Software Development Engineer

#68

Post by kempbellt »

tinyhouse wrote: post #55
Sparkyte wrote: post #10

Amazon is actually really hard to get fired from. I knew this one guy who used to binge drink during while working all day. He only got fired after he brought production down for the third time in six months. I left because I had higher pay offers. I'm an idiot to say the least, but a person who can acknowledge their faults is likely to be someone who gets hired persistently because they know to address it.

That's actually very false. Amazon is not hard to get fired from, but it takes time since there's a mandatory pip process (for performance based firing) like in many tech companies (about 4 months in the US, longer in some European countries; it's often shorter if the candidate agrees to take large severance and leave).

Ah, ye old "Performance Improvement Plan". The passive-aggressively worded, modern version of whipping someone for "not working hard enough".

If you ever get slotted for a PIP (such a cute name...), it's probably better to look for new employment as soon as possible.

Re: I Got Fired from Amazon as a Software Development Engineer

#69

Post by tinyhouse »

999900000999 wrote: post #64
tinyhouse wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a false statement. Amazon plans your 4 years compensation when you join with the idea that you are paid pretty equally every year. The difference is that in year 1 & 2 TC is mostly cash while in year 3 & 4 a big component of the TC is RSUs which replace the cash bonuses from year 1 & 2 (it's called bonus but it's paid regularly and not in large sums; I think they do it to keep the base salary low). The reason…

Wait, so in year 1 and 2 I'm getting large cash bonuses? That's still inferior to getting cash upfront. Say after 10 months you have a medical issue, that means you quit to focus on healing and lose your bonus.

No because it gets paid like a salary over the year with every paycheck.
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