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Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

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Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#41

Post by _Understated_ »

jacquesm wrote: post #33
dQw4w9WgXcQ wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All the speed of motorcycles without the sound awareness, what could possibly go wrong? My overall experience is that E-bike riders generally have decent cycling manners, it's the scooter and unicycle riders that seem to think they can just crank their walking speed up to 30mph and go everywhere a pedestrian would. I usually just give them a firm "heads up next time" when I get buzzed by an electric motor whine at 20…

Scooters are a plague (and this bike is classed as a scooter, unfortunately, so I'm lumped in with the worst), but a bigger danger is mobile phone use by cyclists. That's roughly 1/3rd of all the adults and 2/3rds of the teenagers here.

> but a bigger danger is mobile phone use by cyclists.

Or by pedestrians!

My brother curses the number of pedestrians in Glasgow that cross the road while looking at their phones... they're by far his biggest hazard.

Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#42

Post by phreeza »

jacquesm wrote: post #37
phreeza wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The pedaling aspect is also not really what matters, because you can in principle reduce the load factor so much that the pedals also just become a fancy throttle, no?

No, there is a direct relationship between the power exerted and the power the motor will add. There is a nifty torque sensor built into the cranks.

What I am saying you could hack the power to torque factor to be so high you don't really have to exert very much force at all.

Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#43

Post by stevesearer »

ngngngng wrote: post #20
stevesearer wrote: post #10

We have a pretty good network of fire roads in the southern Los Padres National Forest. Several times recently I have seen hunters and campers using E-Bikes to extend their range into the forest. From what I can tell they use a cargo trailer for gear as well as extra batteries. It will be interesting to see what other uses being find for E-Bikes as ranges increase.

An added benefit for hunters is that deer aren't afraid of the sound of bikes. Similar to cars, they just don't care. It's much easier to approach a deer on bike than on foot.

These particular roads are also closed to normal vehicle traffic (autos and OHV).

I will be interested to see if E-Bikes end up being included in the motorized category in the future and therefore not allowed on these roads. There is some debate locally as to whether they should be allowed on normal trails which are already off-limits to motorized vehicles (but OK for standard bikes).

Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#44

Post by jacquesm »

twodave wrote: post #38

Awesome project Jacques! I saw a comment of yours on an article a day or two ago and was hoping to see this pop up soon. I've found the most difficult thing about riding an e-bike is the other motorists have no idea how to react to you. You're not really a regular bicycle anymore due to your speed, but you're also not a motorcycle that deserves its own lane. I have at least one car turn in front of me almost every tr…

In the USA the situation is much more risky than here.

I don't like riding in traffic mostly because drivers tend to have a short fuse for anything that isn't exactly at the limit, but on bike paths everything works just fine. The problem is that s-pedelecs are technically lumped in with the scooters, even though there is no throttle and there is absolutely no way you are going to sustain 40 Kph+ for anything but a very short period. But they're still pretty new and little by little municipalities are adapting and allowing s-pedelecs to use the bike lanes. What helps is that s-pedelec riders are extremely defensive. In town I simply reduce the assist to 'eco' and cycle with the rest of the bikes, and on the intercity bike paths I go as fast I conditions allow, typically 35 to 38 or so. On a longer trip that averages out to 33 to 35 Kph, which means a 1 hour car trip turns into a 2 hour bike trip, which is acceptable (and never traffic jams, which can turn that 1 hour car trip into a three hour car trip!).

Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#46

Post by aeharding »

stevesearer wrote: post #10

We have a pretty good network of fire roads in the southern Los Padres National Forest. Several times recently I have seen hunters and campers using E-Bikes to extend their range into the forest. From what I can tell they use a cargo trailer for gear as well as extra batteries. It will be interesting to see what other uses being find for E-Bikes as ranges increase.

> From what I can tell they use a cargo trailer for gear as well as extra batteries.

This is the main reason if you might ever buy multiple ebikes in your household, buy a drivetrain brand that has generic, swappable batteries that can work on all your ebikes. Buying batteries is expensive (~$1,000 for Bosch).

For example, some ebikes don't have swappable batteries (either they're integrated or are a no-name brand).

The Bosch Powerpack, on the other hand, is ubiquitous and swappable. If I'm going on a long trip, I steal the battery from my other ebike and bring it along (I have a Surly Big Easy cargo bike and a Trek Verve+ 2. My SO also has a Verve+ 2).

Another benefit on buying ebikes with the same powertrain manufacturer is the battery lock can be keyed alike. It simplifies a lot.

(Oh, one last thing! If you go with Bosch, you can get the battery locks keyed alike to Abus U locks.)

Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#47

Post by TacticalCoder »

ralusek wrote: post #31
TacticalCoder wrote: post #27

We really need a terminology to differentiate better between pedal-assist only e-bikes ("pedelec") and electric motorbikes. A "bicycle" that can accelerate without the need to pedal at all is an electric motorcycle, no matter if you put pedal on it or not. I see the two as totally different things: I've tried pedal-assist e-bike and they're great. But... Although I have nothing against motorbikes I'm not cool at all…

> I'm not cool at all with basically motorbikes getting a free pass because they're disguised as bicycles Why? Seems like a pointless distinction in regards to any sort of rules. Surely where they're allowed to operate, for example, should be based on things like speed and weight, rather than "whether or not the operator is moving their legs in a circular motion."

Read jacquesm's reply to my comment: there are people hacking their pedelec so that they accelerate without you pedaling and that's illegal. I think it's a good thing it's illegal. I do also believe only pedelec are allowed on bike lane in Belgium/Brussels.

A bicycle which you can use without using the pedals is, to me, not the definition of a bicycle.

> Surely where they're allowed to operate, for example, should be based on things like speed and weight, rather than "whether or not the operator is moving their legs in a circular motion."

speed / weight and acceleration. But I'm still not sure about that. Bicycle lanes were made, at first, for people cycling. In European cities it's part of an overall move to be "greener": what's green about a vehicle with can be used without doing any exercise at all? You basically took the ICE engine of a motorbike and put instead an electric motor.

KTM (motorbike company) is already in to e-bike game. These companies are going to come and game the system as much as they can if limits aren't set: they'll otherwise build ultra light full-carbon e-bike with crazy fast acceleration and the selling point is going to be "It's a motorbike you can use in a bicycle lane".

I do honestly think saying: "if you don't need to pedal at all, it's not a bicycle and hence cannot use the bicycle lanes" (like they're apparently doing in the Netherlands) ain't a bad rule.

Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#48

Post by jacquesm »

phreeza wrote: post #42
jacquesm wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, there is a direct relationship between the power exerted and the power the motor will add. There is a nifty torque sensor built into the cranks.

What I am saying you could hack the power to torque factor to be so high you don't really have to exert very much force at all.

You can't. These bikes are DRM'd to the hilt and any attempt at hacking them will cause the bike to brick itself which you can only reset at the dealership. You can do that three times and then it's permanent.

The penalties for having such a hack detected on your bike - assuming you would get away with it - is confiscation. I would strongly advise against such tricks.

You can see how much work just changing out the battery was. There are plenty of parties selling limiter removers or speed boxes but they're all illegal and you are uninsured when using such a device. My bike is perfectly legal to ride.

Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#49

Post by TacticalCoder »

jacquesm wrote: post #39
TacticalCoder wrote: post #27

We really need a terminology to differentiate better between pedal-assist only e-bikes ("pedelec") and electric motorbikes. A "bicycle" that can accelerate without the need to pedal at all is an electric motorcycle, no matter if you put pedal on it or not. I see the two as totally different things: I've tried pedal-assist e-bike and they're great. But... Although I have nothing against motorbikes I'm not cool at all…

I come across modern Solexes with regularity on the bike lanes here, never seen one in traffic.

And they're legal there? With the ICE engine running?

Re: Show HN: Long Range E-Bike

#50

Post by Tostino »

ralusek wrote: post #31
TacticalCoder wrote: post #27

We really need a terminology to differentiate better between pedal-assist only e-bikes ("pedelec") and electric motorbikes. A "bicycle" that can accelerate without the need to pedal at all is an electric motorcycle, no matter if you put pedal on it or not. I see the two as totally different things: I've tried pedal-assist e-bike and they're great. But... Although I have nothing against motorbikes I'm not cool at all…

> I'm not cool at all with basically motorbikes getting a free pass because they're disguised as bicycles Why? Seems like a pointless distinction in regards to any sort of rules. Surely where they're allowed to operate, for example, should be based on things like speed and weight, rather than "whether or not the operator is moving their legs in a circular motion."

Yeah that argument for forcing pedaling to me seems like a way of gatekeeping to keep something a little more "pure" without any actual reason.
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