I think from an evolutionary perspective most of us aren't wired for long focused mental work, especially not after studying/working the whole day already (that's why most side projects fail). It had very little evolutionary gain throughout history. I think life was mostly about surviving physically and then socializing and chatting/games in rest time. I'd note that even when we lived in caves we had to do mental wor…
Scattered thoughts on why I waste my own time
141–150 of 179 posts
Re: Scattered thoughts on why I waste my own time
#142The Hook with sites like Reddit, HN, etc is that they ARE addictive. Actually addictive in the sense of gambling. In gambling addiction the gamblers aren't addicted to winning, they are addicted to losing, or "almost winning". Now if they never ever won the addiction wouldn't form. If they ALWAYS won the addiction also wouldn't form. The old thing was email that people were addicted to checking because you MIGHT get…
> If they know they will get the reward then they know the exact opportunity cost and can weigh that against performing the behavior. So you need to to randomize the value of the treat. Otherwise the dog knows the upper bound of the opportunity and the same reasoning applies.
Re: Scattered thoughts on why I waste my own time
#143Re: Scattered thoughts on why I waste my own time
#144The Hook with sites like Reddit, HN, etc is that they ARE addictive. Actually addictive in the sense of gambling. In gambling addiction the gamblers aren't addicted to winning, they are addicted to losing, or "almost winning". Now if they never ever won the addiction wouldn't form. If they ALWAYS won the addiction also wouldn't form. The old thing was email that people were addicted to checking because you MIGHT get…
> In gambling addiction the gamblers aren't addicted to winning, they are addicted to losing, or "almost winning". I disagree. I remember my DotA addiction, I wasn't addicted to losing or "almost winning", if anything I was addicted to "almost losing". Stomping the enemy wasn't fun, getting stomped wasn't fun, almost winning but losing in the end was VERY not fun, almost losing but winning in the end was a huge high,…
Re: Scattered thoughts on why I waste my own time
#145The Hook with sites like Reddit, HN, etc is that they ARE addictive. Actually addictive in the sense of gambling. In gambling addiction the gamblers aren't addicted to winning, they are addicted to losing, or "almost winning". Now if they never ever won the addiction wouldn't form. If they ALWAYS won the addiction also wouldn't form. The old thing was email that people were addicted to checking because you MIGHT get…
> In gambling addiction the gamblers aren't addicted to winning, they are addicted to losing, or "almost winning". I disagree. I remember my DotA addiction, I wasn't addicted to losing or "almost winning", if anything I was addicted to "almost losing". Stomping the enemy wasn't fun, getting stomped wasn't fun, almost winning but losing in the end was VERY not fun, almost losing but winning in the end was a huge high,…
Re: Scattered thoughts on why I waste my own time
#146The Hook with sites like Reddit, HN, etc is that they ARE addictive. Actually addictive in the sense of gambling. In gambling addiction the gamblers aren't addicted to winning, they are addicted to losing, or "almost winning". Now if they never ever won the addiction wouldn't form. If they ALWAYS won the addiction also wouldn't form. The old thing was email that people were addicted to checking because you MIGHT get…
I think HN is very different from Reddit, in the sense that I don’t think is addictive at all (for me). HN doesn’t have infinite scroll, doesn’t have infinite pages with different posts. And that’s what I think would make something addictive. You keep finding new content, without leaving the site , as long as you want, until you get some reward. On HN I have to reload the page to see something new. And I would have t…
You don't see coming back to HN every hour as a problem?
Re: Scattered thoughts on why I waste my own time
#147The Hook with sites like Reddit, HN, etc is that they ARE addictive. Actually addictive in the sense of gambling. In gambling addiction the gamblers aren't addicted to winning, they are addicted to losing, or "almost winning". Now if they never ever won the addiction wouldn't form. If they ALWAYS won the addiction also wouldn't form. The old thing was email that people were addicted to checking because you MIGHT get…
When a chess engine searches a billion of notes to find the best one, it wastes time, because the next move of the opponent will make the most of found nodes as unneeded. /s
If I read random articles and one of ten is interesting for me, it doesn't mean that I wasted my time reading nine others. (Though I do not read random articles, I read headlines first, I click may be on one of 20, and then I do not read every article through.)
Yeah, I know about addictive behavior in general and the gambling addiction in particular. But we shouldn't believe to an opinion that an addiction is inherently bad. It doesn't. If it was bad, it would be wiped out by an evolution. People just talk more about negative consequences of an addictive behavior, while positive consequences they tend to explain by a "dedication" or something like that. When some socially awkward nerd hiding from people in his basement did something great, no one is going to paint this story in a way that makes his awkwardness to be the reason of his achievement. People will appoint something else to a role of a cause, something that is considered "good", like his skills, brains, dedication, and so on. "Good" outcomes we like to explain by "good" reasons, while "bad" outcomes we like to explain by "bad" reasons.
Addictive behavior supports us when we search for something valuable in a vain. It doesn't mean that addictive behavior is an inherently good thing. (This last sentence doesn't need a justification, so I'll skip it, to not talk about completely obvious things)
So we have: addictive behavior is neither inherently good, nor inherently bad, it just is. But what the collective unconscious does next? It says "addictive behavior is fun, therefore it must be avoided". But it is bullshit. As addictive behavior is neither inherently good nor bad, so fun is neither inherently good nor bad.
The very idea that we must consciously drive ourselves through the life, to think rationally and do not allow self to relax is a bad idea. We have no mental capacity to predict our life good enough. We are doomed to make choices that turns bad in a hindsight. So when we allow our mind to wander a little, to do some activity that have no rational justification, we are preparing ourselves to unexpected turns. We cannot know what information or skills will come useful for us. We do not know how different learned things interacts in our mind (does learning chess makes me a better coder or vice versa?) Therefore a "rational" behavior rejecting fun just rejects the evolutionary tools we have to keep ourselves adapted to a changing environment. We are rejecting our intuition (with its evolutionary roots and deep neural nets to see patterns), that uses "fun" to say what it predicts would be better for us.
From other hand, just following fun is worse than rejecting it entirely. So a lot of people choose an easy way, they reject fun, because it is a guaranteed one step from the worst strategy. But I personally see it as a weakness: people are afraid of themselves, and doesn't dare to make the next step, because it may become a step back.
Or, if we stop listening for what people say, and look at what they do, we'll see that they are exploiting a great strategy. They are using an idea that addictive behavior is bad to restrict it, but nevertheless allow themselves some fun of reading HN and commenting. =)
Re: Scattered thoughts on why I waste my own time
#148Earlier quoted context omitted.
> In gambling addiction the gamblers aren't addicted to winning, they are addicted to losing, or "almost winning". I disagree. I remember my DotA addiction, I wasn't addicted to losing or "almost winning", if anything I was addicted to "almost losing". Stomping the enemy wasn't fun, getting stomped wasn't fun, almost winning but losing in the end was VERY not fun, almost losing but winning in the end was a huge high,…
That's pretty much the story of One Punch Man
Re: Scattered thoughts on why I waste my own time
#149Earlier quoted context omitted.
> In gambling addiction the gamblers aren't addicted to winning, they are addicted to losing, or "almost winning". I disagree. I remember my DotA addiction, I wasn't addicted to losing or "almost winning", if anything I was addicted to "almost losing". Stomping the enemy wasn't fun, getting stomped wasn't fun, almost winning but losing in the end was VERY not fun, almost losing but winning in the end was a huge high,…
I don’t think your experience contradicts what the parent comment said. If you won literally every DotA match you played and were very sure you’d win future ones, my guess is you’d probably grow tired of the game pretty quickly. It was the real possibility of losing that made winning rewarding.
Re: Scattered thoughts on why I waste my own time
#150Earlier quoted context omitted.
I wonder if there's an evolutionary reason for that preference or if this is just an edge case in our rewards system that never mattered until it became heavily exploited by other humans in the modern world.
I think it is a learning mechanism. The real world is very deterministic, if a process has seemingly random outcomes then most likely there is something about it you don't understand, so you repeat it over and over trying to make connections to understand why the different outcomes happens. You can see this a lot in gambling addicts trying to find different ways to beat the system etc, trying to predict which number…