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Faced with soaring Ds and Fs, schools are ditching the old way of grading

latimes.com

341–350 of 359 posts

Re: Faced with soaring Ds and Fs, schools are ditching the old way of grading

#341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you tell me the difference between a 4.0 and a 3.9? Usually I find it to be a ~1-2%! That 1% difference is just one sign error, rounding mistake or miss read question on a midterm! However that difference between how that looks on your transcript is extremely substantial. I feel like 1% is just waaay to “accurate” for teachers to handle! Finding a good teacher is much more important than working hard or understan…

I dont care how good the teacher was if the student doesn’t understand the material…

A good teacher by (my) definition teaches students the material well… I don’t think you understood my original comment.

Re: Faced with soaring Ds and Fs, schools are ditching the old way of grading

#342
post #340
post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In practically every sphere of human activity people are unskilled and get better through practice. Why would handling stress/anxiety be any different?

That one is easy! Stress/anxiety is a condition that makes all kinds of learning significantly more difficult. A small amount of urgency can be helpful, but ideally it should be intrinsic (i.e. someone screaming at you or giving you letter grades is nowhere near as motivating as feeling that you can almost do it) and it's very easy to overshoot.

OK, but that doesn't answer the question of how to teach kids to deal with stress/anxiety. I agree that placing them under stress/anxiety probably damages their learning. I still think it's vital life experience to gain before adulthood.

Re: Faced with soaring Ds and Fs, schools are ditching the old way of grading

#343
post #85

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I wish you were sarcastic. You're basically ruining people instead of helping them grow. But you probably think "it's not my job" anyway.

You would last 3 hours in my shop :-)

I wish I could try.

Re: Faced with soaring Ds and Fs, schools are ditching the old way of grading

#344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The real goal is many more small schools. That's not what will happen, though. What'll happen is you'll get big players owning most the schools, all teaching the same way and same stuff (and if there's no oversight, they can also teach anything , even creationism). Capitalism won't allow this to happen. > Even with larger schools and bus routes, the solution is to create hubs where you can get off one one bus and h…

Smaller schools will happen. This will make it possible for all of the huge home school groups that already exist to form real, funded schools. Big players owning the schools also becomes a huge risk since parents can easily just go elsewhere. Those big players would have to be doing a very good job to keep everybody, compared with the current situation where most people seem to do it because they have no choice. Whe…

> Big players owning the schools also becomes a huge risk since parents can easily just go elsewhere.

You seem to keep assuming this, but it's just not true. Parents with means can go elsewhere, and even then to a limit. But all that does is leave the schools and kids that are left behind even worse off. And the big schools can keep buying up the other schools. There's only so many places within a range where parents can take their kids, not to mention there'd need to be a minimum amount of kids to even justify keeping one open.

> Those big players would have to be doing a very good job to keep everybody, compared with the current situation where most people seem to do it because they have no choice.

No they really don't. We see this all the time with other big companies. I fail to see how privatizing education makes it any different than every other private enterprise out there.

> Where in the world are you seeing a school bus route that goes 2 hours each way?

Rural United States. I had students literally have to be on the bus at 5:30 in order to get to school at 7.30. They also didn't get home until 5:30 or later at night, depending on weather.

> Ideally, the creation of schools a lot closer to those kids would become possible.

Population dynamics prevent it.

> And a transport hub is perfectly normal and even reasonable. It simplifies the entire pickup and drop off process. Who knows, maybe UPS can show us how it’s done?

Sure, if you're willing to have kids commute multiple hours a day, and have to switch buses (maybe several times?) and somehow expect that to not impact their success.

Re: Faced with soaring Ds and Fs, schools are ditching the old way of grading

#345
post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was literally a teacher in a poor school district. I am looking at it from a different perspective, but that doesn't mean my opinion is inherently not valuable. Yes, it might out work great for those kids who can take advantage. But all those who can't are left behind. And actually be left even more behind, especially as all the extra money that would be going to their school flows out. But, hey, they're not your k…

You mistake my disagreement with HOW to take care of those kids with whether or not I care about them, or want to help them. There are other solutions. I was one of those kids. My mother was a drug addict, I spent a large portion of my childhood in a trailer park. There was nothing a teacher could do without me having a structured home life. She would frequently interrupt me when I tried to do my homework, and then y…

I do want to say I completely agree with most of what you have said. Current schools are not capable of handling it. But I don't think there's any possible model of schools that can handle it, except, as you said, keeping kids out of their homes when they're in these situations. That's why I don't think any model of vouchers will work, and will just make things worse for the kids whose parents can't afford or don't want to make things better for them.

Basically, to fix this problem, we need to fix the societal issues in the country, not the schools. That's something I entirely agree with. My disagreement is that I think switching to a voucher system and things like that only makes matters worse for those who can't take advantage of just moving for whatever reason.

Re: Faced with soaring Ds and Fs, schools are ditching the old way of grading

#346
post #122

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Public education is a net good but the implementation model of that education is what’s such a problem right now. There’s a reason so many more kids are home schooled now than ever before and it’s a complete lack of confidence in public schools. Private school waiting lists are a mile long.

I'm a parent of two kids and I couldn't agree more. I went to mostly black and poor public schools my entire childhood. Back then there were a few teachers who clearly didn't care and were never held accountable. Most of the teachers were pretty good though. It's increasingly shifted towards the opposite. I was blown away by how pathetically run my children's public schools are here in Colorado so I put them both in…

>Name a single government agency that is efficient with their money.

USGS!! The amount of benefit they give to the public and the data they make available for free, used by every weather station, civil engineer, surveyor, geologist, etc. etc. relative to their budget is insane! And so much of it is mission critical life-and-death stuff.

It's amazing to me. The updates to mapping alone are mind-boggling since they came from the pre-satellite and drone days.

Re: Faced with soaring Ds and Fs, schools are ditching the old way of grading

#347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Redoing tests is actually amazing! Worst case is that you learn the same amount and best case you really get a good understanding of the material! I’ve had two classes with test redos and I always learn more with them!

Redoing things until you understand them thoroughly is the point of homework assignments. The test is supposed to assess if the material was learned, not teach it.

Yeah but being able to retake them just does both well! It’s purely better in most cases

Re: Faced with soaring Ds and Fs, schools are ditching the old way of grading

#348
post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mwell, that is reminiscent of my experience in $LARGE_CORP where I was hired with a few years experience as a soft. eng. and was given a completely nontechnical role (I was supposed to make wireframes in PowerPoint), while a new graduate who was hired at the same time as myself was put in a "hands on" coding position. That other hire was a guy. My explanation was that $LARGE_CORP simply thought that, hey, she's a chi…

Large orgs are large orgs. I avoid them like the plague these days. But man do I miss the cushy benefits and not feeling guilty about taking vacations.... at a startup you just feel like you got the world on your shoulders. Sucks that they did that to you. Utter garbage.... but yeah, waste is what big orgs do.

Yeah, for me large orgs, never again...

... though I might change my mind if I'm 60 and one needs my COBOL SKILL$$ :P

Re: Faced with soaring Ds and Fs, schools are ditching the old way of grading

#349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Retrieval practice and attempting to solve problems before you know the solution to them _does_ improve retention [1]. At least in my high school, those drills definitely exercised these two ideas. In college I copied half my homeworks from answers or exercised the option to make my grade entirely dependent on exams and I definitely retained less information than if I had done the homework. [1]: https://www.retrieval…

That's the real problem with the studies saying homework does nothing. Drill does improve learning! But that's not showing up in these studies for some reason...

drill improve short term memorization! But unless the exam are focused on memorization instead of on understanding and mastery this will not make a significant impact on exams score.

Re: Faced with soaring Ds and Fs, schools are ditching the old way of grading

#350
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you got to understand where this new guidelines are coming from. If a 5 years old student already can do algebra and calculus but his teacher give him 100 page of simple addition to do as homework and he decide to not do them… Should he fail the class ? I don’t think so, the class is already too easy for him! His grade should only be based on his score on exams! Why force student to waste hours at home doing busy wor…

The same people who are arguing for "no homework" are also the ones arguing for "no tracking." So, in your hypothetical, this kid who can do algebra at age 5 would fail his math class but also not get placed in an advanced math track doing calculus at age 6 where he/she belongs. It's a lose-lose.

I never said there should be no tracking. I am just saying if you want to measure my kid skill do it during school hours instead of forcing him to do an enormous amount of useless work outside school hours
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