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Breakdown of data on homeless populations across the U.S.

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Re: Breakdown of data on homeless populations across the U.S.

#191

Post by bsder »

coryrc wrote: post #68
cheriot wrote: post #9

We're a country of 350,000,000 people. Leaving 500,000 outside simply because municipalities don't want them around is inexcusable. Solution in two parts 1. Make it legal to build homes where people live (looking at you California, specifically LA, SF, SV) 2. Build dorm style shelters for anyone that would otherwise sleep outside There's complicating issues like not enough addiction treatment and mental health facili…

#2 people won't let you build shelters where it's affordable to do so. Seattle's homeless shelters should be built outside Moses Lake, not where a studio costs $300k+. For the amount we already spend, every single chronically homeless person could be housed in dorms built out there and pay for the social workers. Since they aren't doing that, it's clear the real motivation is not to help the homeless.

Shelters won't fix the issue.

San Francisco did a breakdown on their homeless.

Almost 75% have some chronic health problem. 15% have a traumatic brain injury.

That requires facilities for long term medical care. And it basically means universal healthcare.

Unfortunately this puts us back to "You know all those facilities that we closed back in the 70s? Yeah, closing them was a stupid idea and we needed to fix them instead."

Re: Breakdown of data on homeless populations across the U.S.

#192

Post by [deleted] »

fc373745 wrote: post #62
FPGAhacker wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought that too about the weather but what about New York?

if you read the article you would know that the majority of the homeless population in nyc are sheltered as a 1979 class action lawsuit found that it was a constitutional right for the homeless to be sheltered.

[deleted]

Re: Breakdown of data on homeless populations across the U.S.

#193

Post by FPGAhacker »

fc373745 wrote: post #62
FPGAhacker wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought that too about the weather but what about New York?

if you read the article you would know that the majority of the homeless population in nyc are sheltered as a 1979 class action lawsuit found that it was a constitutional right for the homeless to be sheltered.

Please don't comment on whether someone read an article. "Did you even read the article? It mentions that" can be shortened to "The article mentions that." —- hn guidelines

Re: Breakdown of data on homeless populations across the U.S.

#194

Post by throwaway19937 »

epistasis wrote: post #181
throwaway19937 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The west coast also has the 9th circuit's Martin v. Boise decision ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_v._Boise ). It prevents criminalizing public camping unless there's shelter space for everyone. This is impossible given the number of homeless people so we're stuck with encampments everywhere.

I think it's exceptionally possible to build enough shelter space, and adequate funds for most large cities. However what makes it possible is the people who object to construction of new shelter space, who oppose the creation of safe parking spaces, and the creation even of encampments with basic services. IMHO the impulse to keep people out of their city and their neighborhood results in encampments and generally w…

> I think it's exceptionally possible to build enough shelter space, and adequate funds for most large cities. However what makes it possible is the people who object to construction of new shelter space, who oppose the creation of safe parking spaces, and the creation even of encampments with basic services.

If you mean that it's possible except for the voters then that may be true but it's kind of irrelevant.

> IMHO the impulse to keep people out of their city and their neighborhood results in encampments and generally worse conditions both for those with and without houses.

It's entirely sensible to oppose encampments in my neighborhood.

Fires, crimes, and assaults are regular occurrences at encampments and homeless people in Seattle are effectively immune from prosecution.

Would you want a habitual offender like Francisco Calderon (https://komonews.com/news/project-seattle/warrant-issued-for...) or Travis Berge (https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/meth-mental-illness-murder-...) as a neighbor?

Re: Breakdown of data on homeless populations across the U.S.

#195

Post by refurb »

epistasis wrote: post #186
refurb wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Induced demand is not a fallacy. And we’re not building housing here we’re building shelters.

Induced demand for housing is a fallacy. There's only a very very small range of living space that people want. Induced demand for highways definitely is not a fallacy. People can go from needing zero highway miles a day, up to 60-90 highway miles a day, depending on where they live. This sort of range is an order of magnitude higher than what could potentially be induced by having access to, say, cheaper constructio…

You’ve got cause and effect backwards. More people in an area take up less space because it’s more expensive and vice versa when living far away.

And of course you can induce demand with housing. If suddenly you could find $1,000/month 1 bed apartments in SF how many people you think would move there?

Re: Breakdown of data on homeless populations across the U.S.

#196

Post by stillbourne »

chii wrote: post #98
stillbourne wrote: post #42

I live in Denver, like any other metropolitan area there has always been a homeless population. What has been different is since 2016 there has been a staggering growth in the number of tents and so called tent cities. This isn't a problem just downtown either even if it is most visible there. The issue has expanded outside downtown and is filling in vacant properties in suburbia as well. Places like Aurora, almost e…

> I'm making good money and barley able to pay rent. How can this be both true? If you can barely make rent, it must be that you're not making good money. Surely good money means you have excess after paying all necessities. If you mistakenly believe you're making good money, but is in actual fact struggling, you must start looking for a higher paying job, lest you end up homeless due to a sudden economic shock or ac…

The apartment I rented for $1400 a month in 2015 is now $2200. It's still the cheapest in my neighborhood. Meanwhile I'm still making the same amount of money, I've hopped a couple jobs but the wages are stagnant. Also I don't like the tone of your voice you seem to be accusing me of some sort of moral failing for not making enough money. I make what's average for a developer in Denver. I'm putting as much as I can into my savings account but even then I have had to put less in each year to make up for the deficit I lose in rent.

Re: Breakdown of data on homeless populations across the U.S.

#197

Post by coryrc »

pseudalopex wrote: post #104
coryrc wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

#2 people won't let you build shelters where it's affordable to do so. Seattle's homeless shelters should be built outside Moses Lake, not where a studio costs $300k+. For the amount we already spend, every single chronically homeless person could be housed in dorms built out there and pay for the social workers. Since they aren't doing that, it's clear the real motivation is not to help the homeless.

Outside Moses Lake is far outside Seattle's jurisdiction.

And? We don't feed Seattleites with food grown inside its jurisdiction or have landfills within its borders, or house all its prisoners, so why should that be a limitation for where to locate shelters?

Re: Breakdown of data on homeless populations across the U.S.

#198

Post by coryrc »

mjevans wrote: post #119
pseudalopex wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Outside Moses Lake is far outside Seattle's jurisdiction.

It's also far too far away from jobs jobs jobs.

There are quite a few farms out there which need labor. At the wage paid in Seattle, employers can get a more productive worker than someone who has been chronically homeless is capable of being.

Re: Breakdown of data on homeless populations across the U.S.

#199

Post by coryrc »

bsder wrote: post #191
coryrc wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

#2 people won't let you build shelters where it's affordable to do so. Seattle's homeless shelters should be built outside Moses Lake, not where a studio costs $300k+. For the amount we already spend, every single chronically homeless person could be housed in dorms built out there and pay for the social workers. Since they aren't doing that, it's clear the real motivation is not to help the homeless.

Shelters won't fix the issue. San Francisco did a breakdown on their homeless. Almost 75% have some chronic health problem. 15% have a traumatic brain injury . That requires facilities for long term medical care. And it basically means universal healthcare. Unfortunately this puts us back to "You know all those facilities that we closed back in the 70s? Yeah, closing them was a stupid idea and we needed to fix them i…

Sure, shelter, assisted living, prisons, whatever your poison, it's still far cheaper to do outside the area in 99th[0] percentile land costs.

[0] spitballing here

Re: Breakdown of data on homeless populations across the U.S.

#200

Post by Redoubts »

fc373745 wrote: post #62
FPGAhacker wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought that too about the weather but what about New York?

if you read the article you would know that the majority of the homeless population in nyc are sheltered as a 1979 class action lawsuit found that it was a constitutional right for the homeless to be sheltered.

https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/Socratic%20irony
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