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Breakdown of data on homeless populations across the U.S.

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Re: Breakdown of data on homeless populations across the U.S.

#131

Post by spywaregorilla »

bee_rider wrote: post #124
spywaregorilla wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Give mentally ill people the choice of dignity and they will overwhelmingly choose it. The one's flashing their genitals and screaming at strangers? The definition of "mentally ill homeless" is surely nuanced and varied, by this archetype is certainly what a lot of people are going to think of when they hear the term. It's hard for me to imagine degradation is relevant to them.

I'm confused by your post. You appear to be aware that this caricature of a homeless person that you've invented is wrong, based on: > The definition of "mentally ill homeless" is surely nuanced and varied, but in the rest of the post you appear to be discussing this strawman as if it is the primary concern.

It's not a caricature. These people are easy to find in many cities. They're not uncommon sights, even if they don't resemble the average homeless person.

The question was about the "severely mentally ill".

If the counterpoint is that it's rude to acknowledge the people who seem to be utterly insane, well I think that's kind of shit. If it's that these aren't the people we're referring to when we say "severely mentally ill", then I think that's just disingenuous.

Re: Breakdown of data on homeless populations across the U.S.

#132

Post by GhettoComputers »

The article like most people that haven’t been homeless don’t know anything about homelessness aside from inferring from statistics and knowing what is the problem without actually talking to homeless people. #Vanlife people enjoying parking at the beach are chronically homeless and unsheltered.

It’s a great way to dehumanize people’s desires and motivations with wrong assumptions by lying with statistics.

Re: Breakdown of data on homeless populations across the U.S.

#133

Post by spywaregorilla »

woodruffw wrote: post #110
spywaregorilla wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Give mentally ill people the choice of dignity and they will overwhelmingly choose it. The one's flashing their genitals and screaming at strangers? The definition of "mentally ill homeless" is surely nuanced and varied, by this archetype is certainly what a lot of people are going to think of when they hear the term. It's hard for me to imagine degradation is relevant to them.

Emphasis on "overwhelmingly." One of the most pernicious problems in homeless advocacy is that the average person only remembers their worst encounters with mentally ill homeless people, not the tens of thousands of people who they've silently passed on the street.

That feels intentionally misleading though. If I ask you about the severely mentally unwell, and you refer to a guy with heavy depression while there's observable examples of people in literal states of lunacy, you may be technically correct, but obviously you will be misunderstood.

These aren't the "severely mentally ill" that the comment intended imo.

Re: Breakdown of data on homeless populations across the U.S.

#134

Post by whakim »

erik_seaberg wrote: post #117
whakim wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article you cited literally states that only 5 percent of Washington state's unhoused population became homeless out of the state.

If we want to know the magnitude of states shipping homeless people away, we need to start measuring how many had been supporting themselves. I’ve seen studies about California homelessness where a participant was counted as in-state if they bussed here and crashed on a friend’s couch for a little while.

Look, I don't know the actual numbers, but the GP cited "red states busing their homeless population" and then cited a NYT article about this very issue where the numbers presented contradicted that claim. If you do know of studies which have more actual data on this issue, please link to them so we can all learn more - this seems to be one of those issues where there's a lot of emotion but far less actual data!

Re: Breakdown of data on homeless populations across the U.S.

#135

Post by whakim »

paxys wrote: post #94
epistasis wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The data doesn't really seem to support this, and my personal experience doesn't either. Most homeless people in my Californian town were living nearby when they became homeless. And though I didn't go to high school here, friends who did recognize people they grew up among the homeless. There's a far bigger difference between California and its neighbors: housing costs and availability of housing even for those with…

There is never going to be official data on this by design, but there is evidence of it happening all over the country, and "friendly" places like California being on the receiving end of it ( https://www.vice.com/en/article/bvg7ba/instead-of-helping-ho... ). Statistical anomalies are a proven way of identifying cheating in a wide variety of scenarios like elections, standardized tests and sports. It isn't conclusive…

These bus tickets would presumably come out of municipal budgets, right? So not only would such data exist, it would also have to be publicly accessible.

Re: Breakdown of data on homeless populations across the U.S.

#136

Post by brutal_chaos_ »

nradov wrote: post #21
cheriot wrote: post #9

We're a country of 350,000,000 people. Leaving 500,000 outside simply because municipalities don't want them around is inexcusable. Solution in two parts 1. Make it legal to build homes where people live (looking at you California, specifically LA, SF, SV) 2. Build dorm style shelters for anyone that would otherwise sleep outside There's complicating issues like not enough addiction treatment and mental health facili…

We absolutely should build more homeless shelters. However many homeless people refuse to stay in current dorm style shelters because they don't allow drug use, or pets, or the other residents are dangerous.

Nor, in some cases, do they allow for oddball work schedules. So even if you have work, due to the hours you have, no shelter for you.

Re: Breakdown of data on homeless populations across the U.S.

#137

Post by azinman2 »

paxys wrote: post #94
epistasis wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The data doesn't really seem to support this, and my personal experience doesn't either. Most homeless people in my Californian town were living nearby when they became homeless. And though I didn't go to high school here, friends who did recognize people they grew up among the homeless. There's a far bigger difference between California and its neighbors: housing costs and availability of housing even for those with…

There is never going to be official data on this by design, but there is evidence of it happening all over the country, and "friendly" places like California being on the receiving end of it ( https://www.vice.com/en/article/bvg7ba/instead-of-helping-ho... ). Statistical anomalies are a proven way of identifying cheating in a wide variety of scenarios like elections, standardized tests and sports. It isn't conclusive…

San Francisco absolutely has this data, and most people that were homeless were in SF already before. Unfortunately their most recent report is 404ing on their website, but I posted it to HN just about a month ago.

Re: Breakdown of data on homeless populations across the U.S.

#138

Post by azinman2 »

MeinBlutIstBlau wrote: post #115
notJim wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I've seen, it's more likely that it's because it's easier and cheaper to building housing in Nevada than in California. The states where homelessness has improved are generally business-friendly and low-regulation states.

And also make homelessness a crime. But conveniently they push you toward places that help with people on the verge of homelessness. All things combined with yours that these coastal places do not. If people are threatened with jail for being a vagrant, they'll eventually take the path of least resistance and get a job.

> If people are threatened with jail for being a vagrant, they'll eventually take the path of least resistance and get a job.

I'd love to see the data to back this up. Sounds like you're coming from some idea that most homeless want to be lazy and not work and stay homeless, and if jail were threatened, that all of the sudden they'd get a job and re-integrate into society. That's extremely disconnected from reality.

Re: Breakdown of data on homeless populations across the U.S.

#139

Post by GhettoComputers »

cheriot wrote: post #9

We're a country of 350,000,000 people. Leaving 500,000 outside simply because municipalities don't want them around is inexcusable. Solution in two parts 1. Make it legal to build homes where people live (looking at you California, specifically LA, SF, SV) 2. Build dorm style shelters for anyone that would otherwise sleep outside There's complicating issues like not enough addiction treatment and mental health facili…

Removing subsidies from people who got a lower rate with 3 bedrooms before and applied for price freezes would help, they have no reason to move. The rich not wanting their views obstructed with larger buildings or taking away cultural landmark statuses where housing can be built would help, but what about building codes and safety, since earthquakes are a fear?

Anyone who can’t afford housing where they’re at and wants to have housing moves, it’s often ignored that homeless people might be fine being homeless and prefer it to being housed in another area they can afford. I agree there should be housing for people who want it, but I don’t decide I want to live in Beverly Hills and demand affordable for me housing and refuse to leave. If only I could enjoy Echo Park or the Bay Area without paying for housing somehow...

Re: Breakdown of data on homeless populations across the U.S.

#140

Post by tristor »

chii wrote: post #98
stillbourne wrote: post #42

I live in Denver, like any other metropolitan area there has always been a homeless population. What has been different is since 2016 there has been a staggering growth in the number of tents and so called tent cities. This isn't a problem just downtown either even if it is most visible there. The issue has expanded outside downtown and is filling in vacant properties in suburbia as well. Places like Aurora, almost e…

> I'm making good money and barley able to pay rent. How can this be both true? If you can barely make rent, it must be that you're not making good money. Surely good money means you have excess after paying all necessities. If you mistakenly believe you're making good money, but is in actual fact struggling, you must start looking for a higher paying job, lest you end up homeless due to a sudden economic shock or ac…

It's possible because pay rates in Colorado haven't risen in line with housing costs going up. Colorado has suffered more than most states with an absolute influx of people moving there from California and driving up housing costs. Often not discussed when talking about homelessness is that the alternative for many people who can no longer afford to live in a particular area isn't to end up on the street, but to go elsewhere which if done in large enough scales can displace residents there in a cyclical path.

California has had net outflows of US citizen residents for many years, but net inflows overall due to high levels of immigration. As the housing shortage becomes even more of a crisis in California, it's driving many people out to other states, and this mostly people who are fully employed, not at risk of living on the street, but also not able to afford housing at a reasonable percentage of their income in California. Colorado housing costs now average roughly half what Bay Area housing costs, when a decade ago it was closer to 1/6th. Some cities in Texas like Austin are experiencing this as well. The population between 2010 and 2020 in Austin QUADRUPLED, and the vast majority of new residents came from California. Housing prices also have nearly quadrupled at the same time, but not quite thanks to it being very easy to build in Austin and lots of new housing being constructed. What you could buy for $250k in 2010 now costs closer to $650k in Austin. What you could buy in the Denver metro for $400k in 2010 now costs around $1M.

So it is absolutely true that in raw dollars, compared to median household income in the US, you could be "making good money" and now be barely able to pay rent if you live in a place that's had a mass influx of Californians over the last decade causing housing costs to skyrocket.

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