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Breakdown of data on homeless populations across the U.S.

dynomight.net

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Re: Breakdown of data on homeless populations across the U.S.

#121

Post by zwieback »

dynm wrote: post #89
zwieback wrote: post #57

This is great work, data I've been very interested in. It would be really fascinating to get to county and city level, where I live there's been a crazy increase in people living in tents with severe mental and/or substance abuse problems. It does reflect at the state (Oregon) level but I think it's a bit misleading because it feels like there are magnet areas where all the increase happens in one spot.

Hey, I do have plots at the city and county level, 387 of them! Go to https://dynomight.net/homeless-crisis/#all-plots and click on the second triangle thing.

Wow, thanks, fantastic!

Re: Breakdown of data on homeless populations across the U.S.

#122

Post by PaulHoule »

Wow. I've talked with people who "lived outside" and realized that they were in very different situations.

This article does a good job of breaking it down with a simple analysis. It makes me think of the book that inspired this musical

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subways_Are_for_Sleeping

which described quite a few different situations people were in.

Re: Breakdown of data on homeless populations across the U.S.

#123

Post by rossdavidh »

Great article, but I didn't see (maybe I missed it) a notice of the fact that homelessness can be correlated with meth, mental illness, etc. with the causation working in either direction. Homelessness could be caused by, or increase the chances of, any of those other factors (or both).

Re: Breakdown of data on homeless populations across the U.S.

#124

Post by bee_rider »

spywaregorilla wrote: post #107
woodruffw wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have spent my entire life around the homeless, in a city that has a universal shelter mandate. I’ve also spent the better part of a decade volunteering in food pantries and community kitchens. > A lot of people are severely mentally unwell and do not want shelter. No. What they don’t want is to be corralled like livestock into shared living spaces, with no privacy or protection for their property. That’s not becaus…

> Give mentally ill people the choice of dignity and they will overwhelmingly choose it. The one's flashing their genitals and screaming at strangers? The definition of "mentally ill homeless" is surely nuanced and varied, by this archetype is certainly what a lot of people are going to think of when they hear the term. It's hard for me to imagine degradation is relevant to them.

I'm confused by your post. You appear to be aware that this caricature of a homeless person that you've invented is wrong, based on:

> The definition of "mentally ill homeless" is surely nuanced and varied,

but in the rest of the post you appear to be discussing this strawman as if it is the primary concern.

Re: Breakdown of data on homeless populations across the U.S.

#125

Post by TaylorAlexander »

zwieback wrote: post #61

It's really good to see the breakdown into the four broad classes. The big question: should we as a society be allowed to force permanently unsheltered people with substance abuse and mental illness into some kind of facility for treatment? Most people who even want to do anything about these problems would probably say no but I think it's at least worth asking.

I would say no, absolutely not. You should build optional facilities and if people don’t go maybe it’s because your facility sucks. For example lots of places require you to be in at a certain time every night and vacate early in the morning. This may seem fine but it leads to problems for anyone who wants to work a night job or socialize with friends after a day shift.

It seems that housing-first is the way to go. Give someone keys to their own place they can come and go from any time. Offer medical and mental health services nearby. This gives people the time and space to get well and stabilize their life. Using cops to throw someone in to a facility is just one more difficult and disruptive challenge that makes people’s lives worse, not better.

Re: Breakdown of data on homeless populations across the U.S.

#126

Post by paxys »

MeinBlutIstBlau wrote: post #115
notJim wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I've seen, it's more likely that it's because it's easier and cheaper to building housing in Nevada than in California. The states where homelessness has improved are generally business-friendly and low-regulation states.

And also make homelessness a crime. But conveniently they push you toward places that help with people on the verge of homelessness. All things combined with yours that these coastal places do not. If people are threatened with jail for being a vagrant, they'll eventually take the path of least resistance and get a job.

> If people are threatened with jail for being a vagrant, they'll eventually take the path of least resistance and get a job.

More like they'll take the path of least resistance and go to the next town.

Re: Breakdown of data on homeless populations across the U.S.

#127

Post by BurningFrog »

1986 wrote: post #44
nostrebored wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that people in the U.S. so often only see homelessness through the lens of where they live. Homelessness is a unique problem in each city. For example, the west coast has favorable weather and a history of being a destination for people after they are released from prisons or mental facilities. In cities on the east coast there is more leftist-narrative style homelessness: people who were depending on…

> an oversupply of homeless shelters that people refuse to use (due to restrictions on substance abuse etc.) There's a lot hiding in that "etc". Some other reasons people refuse to use (some) shelters: - shelter is / feels unsafe due to a subset of the sheltered population - shelter has a curfew that does not allow you to maintain your work schedule - shelter won't let you bring your child or pet or stuff

Shelters are pretty terrible.

The real solution is to legalize massive housing construction, so everyone can sleep in a home, however simple.

Re: Breakdown of data on homeless populations across the U.S.

#128

Post by vmception »

Great piece! One thing to add is to look into why the anecdotes are pervasive.

This data does a great job at distinguishing between the unhoused population and the sheltered homeless population.

Where the unhoused are visible drives the perception.

In California, the same is true, with unhoused being just the tip of the iceberg in the homeless population, the difference is where the unhoused are. In favelas and bazaars in the middle of very expensive areas.

Strolling through highly trafficked areas of NYC you wouldnt make the broad reductive assumption that “New York has more homeless people”, whereas strolling through highly trafficked areas of SF/LA would be a complete culture shock.

It is an interesting topic as it’s not clear how much people know everytime the topic comes up. Is a prologue about distinguishing between unhoused/sheltered before engaging further really useful? Hard to say

Re: Breakdown of data on homeless populations across the U.S.

#129

Post by GhettoComputers »

jseliger wrote: post #6

There is mostly a housing crisis, with homelessness downstream of housing. I originally left this comment a few months ago, but: CA especially has been underbuilding housing for close to 50 years ( https://techcrunch.com/2014/04/14/sf-housing/ ) and now has a severe housing shortage, to the point where a parodic response, like "California will try absolutely anything to reduce homelessness, except build more housing"…

> Before someone mentions "mental illness" and "drugs" and other contributors to homelessness, yes those are real factors: that said, the lower the cost of housing, the easier it is for someone on the margin of being housed or being homeless to stay housed.

This is assuming wrongly all people want to live in homes. #Vanlife, digital nomads, couch surfers can afford it and don’t want to. You’re ignoring that there’s a beautiful freedom people like, have you ever been homeless? Do you know what it’s like? It’s nice not to pay monthly utility bills, taxes if you own, do maintenance, and deal with neighbors, HOAs (the worst) and being able to leave somewhere without worrying about your lease expiring stress between jobs and paying for the apartment or landlord not fixing problems. If people really wanted to live in homes, they can move to where they can afford it, but they choose to stay and not live in a home. That is not an irrational decision, they are not ignorant cheaper houses elsewhere exist.

You talk as if you haven’t been homeless. You are assuming a lot of inaccurate things and I encourage you to live it to see what the real problems are such as consistent showering (doable with a gym membership), heat (living in a warm place fixes it), theft of valuables (stashing with friends and family or storage units), parking if you drive (Walmart parking lots are free), and nice socks (for the walking you’ll be doing or warmth) off the top of my head. Then I got a girlfriend and she wanted those things.

Re: Breakdown of data on homeless populations across the U.S.

#130

Post by dymk »

woodruffw wrote: post #110
spywaregorilla wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Give mentally ill people the choice of dignity and they will overwhelmingly choose it. The one's flashing their genitals and screaming at strangers? The definition of "mentally ill homeless" is surely nuanced and varied, by this archetype is certainly what a lot of people are going to think of when they hear the term. It's hard for me to imagine degradation is relevant to them.

Emphasis on "overwhelmingly." One of the most pernicious problems in homeless advocacy is that the average person only remembers their worst encounters with mentally ill homeless people, not the tens of thousands of people who they've silently passed on the street.

that’s because there’s two different types of homelessness, and people are intent on conflating the two
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