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Reflections on E-Bikes

ebikes.neighbor-ryan.org

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Re: Reflections on E-Bikes

#181

Post by jjav »

russellbeattie wrote: post #31

The thing about ebikes is they sit in a speed niche that hasn't really been seen before, and it's going to cause lots of problems. Before ebikes, you either rode a bicycle, or moved up to a motorscooter or motorcycle, which are much more regulated. The problem is, ebikes are stealth motorscooters . They go really, really fast, for sustained periods of time, and yet are as thin and quiet as a pedal bike. I just starte…

> They go really, really fast, for sustained periods of time

Not really. The various e-bike classes all have assist cutoff speeds which are lower than what one can pedal a regular road bike, so e-bikes aren't any faster. It just takes less effort and sweat to keep the speed, but the actual speed isn't higher.

Re: Reflections on E-Bikes

#182

Post by m000 »

If good infrastructure is in place, like it happens in the Netherlands, e-bikes are not all upsides. From personal experience, I have identified a few problems.

(a) speed = reduced reaction time. No more riding with your headphones on ---that's pretty safe and common to do in the Netherlands--- as you need all your senses on alert to react on any road emergency. (b) speed = less excercise for short-midrange routes. Your 20' bicycle ride to work becomes a 12' e-bike ride, and requires less effort. (c) speed = more room to be an asshat. Most e-bike riders behave, but as more and more youngsters can afford an e-bike, things change. Worse, youngsters often go for those heavy, fat-tire e-bikes that are just as dangerous to crash with as a regular moped. And just wait until those become popular with the (already annoying) bicycle-riding tourists.

But to be fair, an e-bike can also pay of its purchase within a year in cities with high rent prices. This includes Amsterdam.

Re: Reflections on E-Bikes

#183

Post by dreamcompiler »

jjav wrote: post #177
dreamcompiler wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want 250 watts or less for a bit of assistance with pedaling and ~20 miles of range, a conversion kit is fine. But if you have to deal with serious hills or want to use throttle-only, 250W won't be enough. IMO 750W is the bare minimum for that, and it requires a bigger motor, bigger battery, and disc brakes.* That costs a lot more and it's easier (and probably cheaper) to just buy the whole bike than convert w…

> 250W won't be enough. IMO 750W is the bare minimum Those numbers seem huge. I can only put out about 150W sustained, so a 250W motor boost on top of that sounds like a lot. That would have me at 400W combined which is nearly pro-rider territory.

Pro riders are riding 17-lb bikes. An electric bike with a big motor and battery is closer to 60 lbs. Electric bikes are governed by something similar to the rocket equation.

Re: Reflections on E-Bikes

#184

Post by dreamcompiler »

multjoy wrote: post #163
dreamcompiler wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want 250 watts or less for a bit of assistance with pedaling and ~20 miles of range, a conversion kit is fine. But if you have to deal with serious hills or want to use throttle-only, 250W won't be enough. IMO 750W is the bare minimum for that, and it requires a bigger motor, bigger battery, and disc brakes.* That costs a lot more and it's easier (and probably cheaper) to just buy the whole bike than convert w…

If you want to use throttle only, then you're no longer riding a pedal-ec and are riding an electric motorcycle (and will consequently need the appropriate licence, insurance and vehicle type approval).

In the US if the bike is powered by a 750 watt or smaller motor and travels at 20 mph or less, it's still an electric bike -- not a motorcycle -- even when powered solely by the battery.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/107th-congress/house-bill/727/...

Re: Reflections on E-Bikes

#185

Post by hazza_n_dazza »

leoedin wrote: post #107

I put a relatively low power (250W) mid-drive conversion kit on my commuter bike last year, along with a decent front rack and a child seat for my 18 month year old. It's incredibly useful for doing short journeys. The motor doesn't make the bike any quicker than a normal bike, but it makes hills a breeze and removes that "can I be bothered" feeling from cycling. If I'm feeling more energetic I drop the assist down t…

i have a long tail cargo, non-electric, Yuba Sweet Curry. It is awesome, the kids go on the back and have a blast. Way better than a three wheel cargo bike. Much lighter and can pop up on the footpath.

Re: Reflections on E-Bikes

#186

Post by mgraczyk »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #83
mgraczyk wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just meeting anecdote with anecdote, but in my experience the overwhelming majority of accidents and near accidents with bicycles happen because either a driver isn't paying attention, or the bicyclist intentionally cuts in front of traffic to get hit or fuck with people (San Francisco). E-bikes make the first case safer because, as described in the article, the faster you go the more time the driver has to notice yo…

The vast majority of accidents happen at intersections. At an intersection the faster you go the less time somebody in the cross direction has to see you, so speed makes you much less safe.

I've only seen one good study about this, and it was in Sweden where people drive very differently. That study suggested faster speeds do lead to more collisions or near collisions with cars.

But in the absence of more relevant and recent studies, I prefer to trust my own experience. I feel safer on a bike when I go faster because I'm moving at a slower speed relative to the cars more likely to hit me, and I can get out of the way of others more quickly.

Re: Reflections on E-Bikes

#187

Post by jjav »

dreamcompiler wrote: post #183
jjav wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 250W won't be enough. IMO 750W is the bare minimum Those numbers seem huge. I can only put out about 150W sustained, so a 250W motor boost on top of that sounds like a lot. That would have me at 400W combined which is nearly pro-rider territory.

Pro riders are riding 17-lb bikes. An electric bike with a big motor and battery is closer to 60 lbs. Electric bikes are governed by something similar to the rocket equation.

> Pro riders are riding 17-lb bikes. An electric bike with a big motor and battery is closer to 60 lbs.

My road bike (a 10+ year old Specialized) is 19lbs.

A Specialized Turbo Creo (an e-bike) is under 28lbs as advertised.

My mountain bike (regular bike, nothing electric) is 29lbs.

I know 60lb behemots exist, but e-bikes don't need to be crazy heavy anymore.

Re: Reflections on E-Bikes

#188

Post by Fricken »

pjmlp wrote: post #149
Fricken wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Might I suggest clothing? There is clothing available now that can be used to protect our frail, naked bodies against the punishing elements.

Indeed, yet they are hopeless against proper rain and snow, but I guess some people are masochistic. I am used to Scandinavian, German and Swiss winter. Cycling with rain or snowstorm, only when no other option is available.

I am used to Canadian prarie winters. You're doing it wrong.
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