Richard “Lowtax” Kyanka, creator of Somethingawful, has died • Hacker News Board

Re: Richard “Lowtax” Kyanka, creator of Somethingawful, has died

#251

Post by prvc » Thu, Nov 11, 2021, 4:04 PM UTC

seattle_spring wrote: post #238

prvc wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would be another possible interpretation of the phrase, but I think it is the less plausible one due to other contextual cues in the above text. In fact, the following quote appears on p. 128 of the same thread, posted by the same account: >with me, Rich did not get physical. Which, in my view, definitively settles the issue in the favor of my previous comments. The imputed "suggestion" was, in fact, the case. I…

So you don't think psychological abuse is domestic violence? Do not have kids, please.

>So you don't think psychological abuse is domestic violence?

It doesn't follow that making a distinction between the two concepts entails approval of instances of either one.

Re: Richard “Lowtax” Kyanka, creator of Somethingawful, has died

#252

Post by romwell » Thu, Nov 11, 2021, 4:06 PM UTC

tremon wrote: post #246

romwell wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why did the movement lose your support? It didn't advocate removal of libel laws, did it? And "extrajudicial punishment" is a stretch for "I have a right to tell people what happened to me without shame and harrasment". Did #metoo make a call to burn people at stakes that I missed?

You're kidding, right? You think that all of the things listed below are instances of "I have a right to tell people what happened to me without shame and harrasment", and none are instances of virtual stake burning? Note: this is the result of just five minutes of keyword searches, I have no opinion on the actual merits of these cases, just disproving your claim that there is no extrajudicial punishment associated w…

The things you listed look like a random collection of things that happened where there was some controversy.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say, looks like you attribute all scandals to #metoo agenda.

Re: Richard “Lowtax” Kyanka, creator of Somethingawful, has died

#253

Post by JohnBooty » Thu, Nov 11, 2021, 4:10 PM UTC

romwell wrote: post #220

JohnBooty wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whoa, I think there's a major misunderstanding here. First, I agree: rape is a bad choice for humor. For a number of reasons. Second, sexual assault is a huge problem and it has affected my own life in various ways. People I love have been sexually assaulted. I've seen the damage and I'm sure that the damage runs deeper than I can truly know. However... What mind finds deliberately hurting another human being an enjo…

> I assure you that's rarely what anybody is thinking when they tell that sort of joke. I know, and that's a problem. I was in that number, too. To be clear, I didn't say that this is what people who tell the joke think . I was explaining why, as you said, rape is a bad choice of humor to the parent commentor, who didn't see it as such. >It's gallows humor, more or less. Gallows humor would be me saying, to another J…

You list some really good reasons why joking about rape is a bad idea. I agree with them.

However...

    Hate to be Captain Obvious again

Any chance Captain Logical Consistency is around? I feel like your heart is in the right place, but your logic is alllllll over the place.

    [unlike a rape joke, the joke about murdering telemarketers 
    is okay because of] the reality that telemarketers aren't 
    being actually murdered en masse (whereas, as #metoo showed, 
    women are raped en masse)

Sure, I agree.

    Gallows humor would be me saying, to another Jewish person, 
    that we'll going to be debating whether a particular act was 
    antisemitic or not all the way to the concentration camp.

Agreed.

    A sexual assault survivor telling that rape joke would be 
    gallows humor, too.

OK, so let me get this straight. Only actual, literal sexual assault survivors can joke about it and have their jokes justified as gallows humor?

However, you can joke about concentration camps, and that's gallows humor, despite not having actually been sent to one? As one of Jewish descent, I do not dispute that the reality of the holocaust has affected you in myriad direct and indirect ways that I can not fully understand.[1] But the same could be said of sexual assault. The statistics are stark: essentially, literally everybody has been affected by it directly or indirectly. I haven't been raped, but loved ones have.

And how does this relate to the telemarketers example? You say it's okay to joke about killing them, because telemarketer murder is not really a thing and therefore we recognize it as a joke, however, you can joke about Nazis when Nazis (and their ideological cousins/descendants) are still very much a thing?

    In the sense that perpetuating a stupid joke like that 
    does not mean the person is endorsing it consciously. 

    But the net effect amounts to the same.

Right, I think that's part of the problem with rape jokes - rape is (incorrectly) seen as a gray area by many, so I would generally say that joking about it is a poor choice. It is also understandably upsetting for some survivors to hear as it dredges up memories of the worst moments of their lives.

But I think you're overlooking some key things here. When examining humor it's crucial to understand not only the topic being joked about, but the target or butt of the joke.

If I say, "so-and-so is a shitty person; he probably rapes gerbils in his spare time" then that is a pretty bad choice. I wouldn't say that. But it also is pretty impossible to frame that as even an implicit or unconscious endorsement of rape. While a poor choice, it can't be compared to a "joke" like "9 out of 10 people enjoy gang rape" or whatever.

    Going back to rape, we'd live in a better society if men 
    were taught by the culture that sexual intercourse with 
    an unwilling participant is inherently unenjoyable.

Unless I'm completely out of touch consensus is that forcible rape is about power. The rapists aren't under the illusion that what they're doing is enjoyable. The unenjoyability is the point.

Other forms of rape are probably more about a lack of empathy and/or communication. Partner 1 understands that unwilling sex is bad, but has deluded themselves into thinking that sex is really what Partner 2 wants.

---

[1] However, my grandfather (Jew) nearly died in a Nazi labor camp, so I'm not entirely disconnected from that reality either... at least we can hate Nazis together.

Re: Richard “Lowtax” Kyanka, creator of Somethingawful, has died

#254

Post by corobo » Thu, Nov 11, 2021, 4:13 PM UTC

kyledrake wrote: post #249

Svperstar wrote: post #165

I'm old so I remember when SomethingAwful was like 4chan and reddit combined for its time. I never actually registered an account on the forums, I was busy on other sites. My biggest issue with the SA forums is how they abused their users("Goons"). Basically. Imagine having to pay $10 to register a 4chan or reddit account and being banned for silly and ridiculous rule infractions but then being allowed back on if you…

Since banning ended up being a big part of their revenue model, I think an interesting approach they could have took was to allow you to re-instate your existing account if you were banned for $10, instead of having to register a completely new account. That would have avoided the chaos of losing users that had reputation while still kind of working for their odd moderation and revenue system. They could have also, o…

> I think an interesting approach they could have took was to allow you to re-instate your existing account if you were banned for $10, instead of having to register a completely new account

That is how it works

https://secure.somethingawful.com/products/unban.php

Re: Richard “Lowtax” Kyanka, creator of Somethingawful, has died

#255

Post by Exmoor » Thu, Nov 11, 2021, 4:19 PM UTC

kyledrake wrote: post #249

Svperstar wrote: post #165

I'm old so I remember when SomethingAwful was like 4chan and reddit combined for its time. I never actually registered an account on the forums, I was busy on other sites. My biggest issue with the SA forums is how they abused their users("Goons"). Basically. Imagine having to pay $10 to register a 4chan or reddit account and being banned for silly and ridiculous rule infractions but then being allowed back on if you…

Since banning ended up being a big part of their revenue model, I think an interesting approach they could have took was to allow you to re-instate your existing account if you were banned for $10, instead of having to register a completely new account. That would have avoided the chaos of losing users that had reputation while still kind of working for their odd moderation and revenue system. They could have also, o…

That was the way normal bans worked. Pay :tenbux: and get your account reactivated. Permabans, which generally required really toxic* behavior were "we never want to see you on this site again." and you weren't supposed to re-register an account at all.

*Over the years Rich was running the site it seemed like "criticism of the mods" more frequently became a perma-bannable offense.

e: f, b.

Re: Richard “Lowtax” Kyanka, creator of Somethingawful, has died

#256

Post by ryandrake » Thu, Nov 11, 2021, 4:24 PM UTC

ryaniscool wrote: post #235

extortionist wrote: post #12

He leaves behind a complicated legacy. It's important to note that credible allegations of domestic abuse lead him to sell SA in the past year, and this can't be set aside. At the same time, SA's influence on the modern internet can't be understated. The 'image macro' of early SA (maybe created by Lowtax himself, from what Fragmaster says in his video in the link) is the direct ancestor of today's common meme image--…

Never heard of this guy or SA until this post but I think it's depressing that we feel guilty celebrating this guy's accomplishments without being like "oh but it has to be mentioned he treated people in his life terribly and might have been an objectively awful person". Maybe there is a subconscious belief that only "good" people deserve success and praise? I just find this so naive because if you've lived long enou…

> Maybe there is a subconscious belief that only "good" people deserve success and praise? I just find this so naive because if you've lived long enough and gotten to know yourself and other people you realize how complicated and flawed each and every one of us are.

We see this a lot in posts here and elsewhere: Some historical figure or someone with a lifetime of achievements and impact gets mentioned. Then, inevitably, a poster comes out of the woodwork to remind everyone: "Buuuuuut he was sexist" or "Buuuuuut he sometimes beat his kids" or "Buuuuuut he once cheated on his wife" as if that one fact nullifies everything else the person did.

I'm glad OP acknowledged that the person in question was "complicated". We all are complicated. People should not be reduced to a single dimension or a single bad thing they did. I hope when I finally pass away, my epitaph talks about the major things I did, rather than that one worst thing I ever did, that someone found by analyzing 40 years of comment history.

Re: Richard “Lowtax” Kyanka, creator of Somethingawful, has died

#257

Post by arpa » Thu, Nov 11, 2021, 4:41 PM UTC

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #79

I used to visit SA regularly. A lot of the humor was tasteless, but nowhere near the level of the chans. I avoided the forums, and only read the front page stuff. What kept me coming, was that they were amazing writers (it wasn’t just him -or he wrote under several nom de plumes ). His essays, done in the style of famous writers, and deadpan humor, where a story seemed serious, up until the point that you suddenly re…

oh man, Zack Parsons' series "the insidious beast" and "instructions for a thing" were the best series i've ever read on the web. He kind of lost me a bit later on.

Re: Richard “Lowtax” Kyanka, creator of Somethingawful, has died

#258

Post by romwell » Thu, Nov 11, 2021, 4:44 PM UTC

JohnBooty wrote: post #253

romwell wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I assure you that's rarely what anybody is thinking when they tell that sort of joke. I know, and that's a problem. I was in that number, too. To be clear, I didn't say that this is what people who tell the joke think . I was explaining why, as you said, rape is a bad choice of humor to the parent commentor, who didn't see it as such. >It's gallows humor, more or less. Gallows humor would be me saying, to another J…

You list some really good reasons why joking about rape is a bad idea. I agree with them. However... Hate to be Captain Obvious again Any chance Captain Logical Consistency is around? I feel like your heart is in the right place, but your logic is alllllll over the place. [unlike a rape joke, the joke about murdering telemarketers is okay because of] the reality that telemarketers aren't being actually murdered en ma…

To answer your questions:

>OK, so let me get this straight. Only actual, literal sexual assault survivors can joke about it and have their jokes justified as gallows humor?

I never said only, did I? I said that in this context, it would be gallows humor.

By definition, gallows humor is joking about a grim situation that the person making the joke finds themselves in. A rape victim joking about rape in that way would be an example of gallows humor.

>However, you can joke about concentration camps, and that's gallows humor, despite not having actually been sent to one?

Yes, because I am Jewish, if that was not clear from the context, and the possibility of being killed for being Jewish isn't a remote fantasy, as you know full well. 2 of my great-grandparents died fighting, grandpa on father's side went to Berlin and back. That doesn't matter for my argument, though; what matters more is that the Pittsburgh shooting happened here and now.

Joking possibility of being killed for being Jewish is an example of gallows humor when you are a Jew and that possibility exists for you.

>you can joke about Nazis when Nazis are still very much a thing?

You can always joke about the Nazis. This doesn't have to do with them being a thing or not. It has to do with who is the butt of the joke.

The fine print to "jokes at someone's expense = bad" is "...when someone is defined by characteristics they didn't choose". Rape victims didn't choose to be raped. Jews didn't choose to be Jewish. People don't choose who they are attracted to, or what color their skin is.

But being a Nazi is a choice. Joke away.

Whether something is a thing or not a thing has to do with whether what you say will be perceived as a figure of speech or an actual concern, that doesn't really factor in here.

>But I think you're overlooking some key things here. When examining humor it's crucial to understand not only the topic being joked about, but the target or butt of the joke.

To the contrary, that was exactly my point from the very beginning :)

>If I say, "so-and-so is a shitty person; he probably rapes gerbils in his spare time" then that is a pretty bad choice. I wouldn't say that. But it also is pretty impossible to frame that as even an implicit or unconscious endorsement of rape.

Well of course, because gerbils being raped is not a concern. We're on the same page here.

>The rapists aren't under the illusion that what they're doing is enjoyable.

They enjoy the power. They aren't raping out of obligation, after all.

>Other forms of rape are probably more about a lack of empathy and/or communication. Partner 1 understands that unwilling sex is bad, but has deluded themselves into thinking that sex is really what Partner 2 wants.

Potato potato, and it's incredibly common.

And if they clearly don't want it, then the rapist thinks they should, so it doesn't matter.

I know at least two women who's been raped by their spouses over extended periods of time off the top of my head. Many more who were raped / sexually assaulted at some point.

Rapist Brock Turner's father complained that his son getting justice is a "steep price to pay for 20 minutes of action". That's how these people see it - it's "just some action" to them.

Jokes like "9 out of 10 people" help perpetuate this view.

Do we still need the help of Captain Logical Consistency? :)

Re: Richard “Lowtax” Kyanka, creator of Somethingawful, has died

#259

Post by waltbosz » Thu, Nov 11, 2021, 4:51 PM UTC

kalleboo wrote: post #172

waltbosz wrote: post #29

Anyone remember ezpics?

I wrote a/the Mac client for parsing them! I also made a winampdb client to pull your current song from iTunes, remember when everyone had one of those in their signature?

I wrote the original Windows client, created quite a file sharing revolution back in the day.

Ahh Winamp, good ole days before AOL ruined it.

Re: Richard “Lowtax” Kyanka, creator of Somethingawful, has died

#260

Post by moopie » Thu, Nov 11, 2021, 4:54 PM UTC

ryaniscool wrote: post #235

extortionist wrote: post #12

He leaves behind a complicated legacy. It's important to note that credible allegations of domestic abuse lead him to sell SA in the past year, and this can't be set aside. At the same time, SA's influence on the modern internet can't be understated. The 'image macro' of early SA (maybe created by Lowtax himself, from what Fragmaster says in his video in the link) is the direct ancestor of today's common meme image--…

Never heard of this guy or SA until this post but I think it's depressing that we feel guilty celebrating this guy's accomplishments without being like "oh but it has to be mentioned he treated people in his life terribly and might have been an objectively awful person". Maybe there is a subconscious belief that only "good" people deserve success and praise? I just find this so naive because if you've lived long enou…

I think it's important to remind people that despite his achievements he was still a domestic abuser.