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American spy hacked Booking.com, company stayed silent

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Re: American spy hacked Booking.com, company stayed silent

#191

Post by WarOnPrivacy »

nverno wrote: post #141
hosteur wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why?

Would you rather live under the American, Russian, or Chinese government? Probably as simple as that- what's considered damaging in this case likely depends on your preferences.

> Would you rather live under the American, Russian, or Chinese government?

alt: Would you rather be mistreated by a relative or a stranger?

As an American I'd rather my gov be held accountable for it's unethical IC behavior - especially by it's allies.

The reason is that other nations are proving grounds; the methods developed there will eventually be leveraged by US government(s) against US citizens.

Re: American spy hacked Booking.com, company stayed silent

#192

Post by gunnihinn »

nostrebored wrote: post #164
amirs wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To play the devil's advocate here - I do the same as you, but last month when I booked a 3 week vacation Booking offered better prices than the hotels themselves. They also didn't pull any stunts like other hotel aggregators do (show you a price and change it when you get to the checkout). I also had a single instance in the past where I wanted to prolong my stay at a hotel, and the hotel clerk told me I'd get a bett…

It’s because booking purchases the rooms wholesale, and typically well in advance of the stay dates. They can offer you a lower price because hotels use them to make their business more predictable.

I work at Booking. We do not do this and never have. Other OTAs do, like Expedia. It’s the merchant vs. agent model.

Re: American spy hacked Booking.com, company stayed silent

#193

Post by misja111 »

isoprophlex wrote: post #108
misja111 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is nonsense. Source: I have been working in the cyber security department of a major Dutch bank.

Doesn't an admission that you work for the cybersecurity of a Dutch bank immediately discount any claims you make? If you're responsible for their cyber security, I guess you have a stake in projecting the idea that everything is fine. Either way you can't prove anything with a one line comment like this. The only winning move is not to play... (Or ask for sources. Of course the assertion by smooc is equally devoid o…

I have been working there. I don't work there anymore. But I doubt that whatever I say could change your opinion, you seem to have your mind already made up.

Re: American spy hacked Booking.com, company stayed silent

#194

Post by samhw »

A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote: post #100
samhw wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It feels a bit tin-foil-hattish (I mean: why?), but, aside from my stupefaction at the possible motivation behind why they would do that, logically I find it pretty hard to deny that conclusion. They identify AQ/ISIS plots which are far more competently organised. I have absolutely 0% confidence that they weren't aware of something widely organised on literal Facebook . -- Edit: The only other logical conclusion I ca…

Sorry for making it read like a conspiracy. When I typed allowed, I didn't want to ascribe any particular interpretation so I settled on that verb. In that sense, intelligence was gathered, reported and then something happened. I have zero problem believing it got lost in the shuffle as I have seen some big entities fail in that regard. If more malicious interpretation is followed, your guess is as good mine. I am wi…

Oh no, I didn't mean it in a critical way. I was just hedging my agreement by acknowledging that it sounds a bit mad, but it does seem to be practically the only interpretation which actually coheres with the facts.

My guess is that, like with most of these complex human system failures, it was a combination of inattention and mildly-ideologically-motivated disinterest (e.g. someone didn't really think white nationalists were as great a threat as Islamic terrorists &c, and so it didn't make its way from their desk to their superior's desk).

Also I agree: we'll probably find out eventually, long after it's ceased to be of any interest. Like with MKULTRA, Tuskegee, the weirdness around the fact that UFOs[0] were/are actually taken semi-seriously at least by parts of the govt, etc.

[0] Always worth emphasising that 'UFOs' != 'aliens', to be fair.

Re: American spy hacked Booking.com, company stayed silent

#195

Post by hammock »

shmatt wrote: post #171
hammock wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How could allowing random countries to spy on your customers not be considered a hindrance? Don't you think this would cost you future customers?

I don't think anyone assumes the booking for their next family vacation or business trip can't be tracked. They use their credit card and their telephone number at least As for losing the customer base of drug kingpins and wanted terrorists, they're probably OK with losing them

That might be a reasonable expectation, that the government of the country whose company you use to book a hotel would know what you're doing.

But that's not this.

Booking.com is a Dutch company. The spy was American. And not even authorized by the US nor the Netherlands either.

Re: American spy hacked Booking.com, company stayed silent

#196

Post by arthur_sav »

JohnGB wrote: post #186

The company's response is very much in line with standard Dutch policy. Unless someone forces you to do something, only do the absolute bare minimum necessary to not go to jail. The common term for this is "zesje" (little six in English), which comes from school and university where it's the bare minimum grade to pass. Anything more than the bare minimum is considered a waste of work. Before any Dutch members get wor…

Lean startup but in attitude.

Re: American spy hacked Booking.com, company stayed silent

#197

Post by arthur_sav »

qwertox wrote: post #103
consp wrote: post #9

Interesting part from the Dutch version of the article: Booking is nooit eerder op spionage gestuit. Het bedrijf is er ook niet echt naar op zoek. Zolang die geen hinder oplevert, kost het geen geld. De onuitgesproken consensus onder specialisten binnen het bedrijf is: we vermoeden dat inlichtingendiensten meekijken, maar zolang we ze niet zien, maken we ons niet druk. Which roughly translates to We are not looking f…

According to Google Translate: > Booking has never encountered espionage before. The company isn't really looking for it either. As long as it doesn't cause any hindrance, it won't cost you any money. The unspoken consensus among specialists within the company is: we suspect that intelligence services are watching, but as long as we don't see them, we don't worry. What should make me believe that they don't have the…

> as long as we don't see them, we don't worry

If we don't know they exist... do they really exist?

Brilliant

Re: American spy hacked Booking.com, company stayed silent

#198

Post by [deleted] »

JohnGB wrote: post #186

The company's response is very much in line with standard Dutch policy. Unless someone forces you to do something, only do the absolute bare minimum necessary to not go to jail. The common term for this is "zesje" (little six in English), which comes from school and university where it's the bare minimum grade to pass. Anything more than the bare minimum is considered a waste of work. Before any Dutch members get wor…

[deleted]

Re: American spy hacked Booking.com, company stayed silent

#199

Post by nverno »

WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #191
nverno wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you rather live under the American, Russian, or Chinese government? Probably as simple as that- what's considered damaging in this case likely depends on your preferences.

> Would you rather live under the American, Russian, or Chinese government? alt: Would you rather be mistreated by a relative or a stranger? As an American I'd rather my gov be held accountable for it's unethical IC behavior - especially by it's allies. The reason is that other nations are proving grounds; the methods developed there will eventually be leveraged by US government(s) against US citizens.

this was commentary on the /hypothetical/ scenario from OP on which regime was more damaging, which I read as essentially ideology choice, not an endorsement of any particular methods

Re: American spy hacked Booking.com, company stayed silent

#200

Post by capableweb »

hammock wrote: post #195
shmatt wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think anyone assumes the booking for their next family vacation or business trip can't be tracked. They use their credit card and their telephone number at least As for losing the customer base of drug kingpins and wanted terrorists, they're probably OK with losing them

That might be a reasonable expectation, that the government of the country whose company you use to book a hotel would know what you're doing. But that's not this. Booking.com is a Dutch company. The spy was American. And not even authorized by the US nor the Netherlands either.

Booking.com is kind of a Dutch company, at least the .com division, but it's actually owned by a American parent, "Booking Holdings", based in Norwalk, Connecticut.
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