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Faced with soaring Ds and Fs, schools are ditching the old way of grading

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Re: Faced with soaring Ds and Fs, schools are ditching the old way of grading

#221

Post by bambataa »

secondaryacct wrote: post #89
uejfiweun wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love these ideas and I agree with them for the most part. But I am pessimistic about US society's capacity to make such far reaching changes to a system that has largely stayed the same for almost 100 years. There are just too many forces pulling these government officials too many ways - the best we will get is some compromise that satisfies nobody. That's why I say we should move to a more free-market based solut…

I went to a private school in France, a small one in a smallish town, and I dont really understand why we have public schools. The incentive to succeed starts at parents having to pay, ending with the students being quite aggressively challenged to actually deliver on exams. It may not be fit for everyone, but now that I work in an investment bank in Hong Kong, I dont feel like I m being abused by deadlines, financia…

> But in France, saying these is an anathema, people can get insane we encourage kids to excel, in silly things such as just being fluent in English, useful in Math, generally aware of physics, careful about historical precedents or able to follow a discussion on philosophy.

Mass education is still a relatively new thing. Has there ever been a time when we successfully taught that to the large majority of children? Part of me wonders whether it is a reasonable goal. I don’t think the UK ever achieved the equivalent.

Re: Faced with soaring Ds and Fs, schools are ditching the old way of grading

#222

Post by DeathArrow »

secondaryacct wrote: post #89
uejfiweun wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love these ideas and I agree with them for the most part. But I am pessimistic about US society's capacity to make such far reaching changes to a system that has largely stayed the same for almost 100 years. There are just too many forces pulling these government officials too many ways - the best we will get is some compromise that satisfies nobody. That's why I say we should move to a more free-market based solut…

I went to a private school in France, a small one in a smallish town, and I dont really understand why we have public schools. The incentive to succeed starts at parents having to pay, ending with the students being quite aggressively challenged to actually deliver on exams. It may not be fit for everyone, but now that I work in an investment bank in Hong Kong, I dont feel like I m being abused by deadlines, financia…

>The incentive to succeed starts at parents having to pay, ending with the students being quite aggressively challenged to actually deliver on exams.

Responsible parents should challenge their kids to learn regardless if the school is public or not, if they care about the future of their children.

Re: Faced with soaring Ds and Fs, schools are ditching the old way of grading

#223

Post by bruceb »

JPKab wrote: post #122
brightball wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Public education is a net good but the implementation model of that education is what’s such a problem right now. There’s a reason so many more kids are home schooled now than ever before and it’s a complete lack of confidence in public schools. Private school waiting lists are a mile long.

I'm a parent of two kids and I couldn't agree more. I went to mostly black and poor public schools my entire childhood. Back then there were a few teachers who clearly didn't care and were never held accountable. Most of the teachers were pretty good though. It's increasingly shifted towards the opposite. I was blown away by how pathetically run my children's public schools are here in Colorado so I put them both in…

yes how dare they take vacation as already negotiated in their contract. Darn those teacher hanging at their mansions Also anyone who works at google should not be allowed to take vacation if they worked from home. Sure that would go over well.

The vaccine wasn’t really available till a few months into 2021, and I can understand the hesitation on some to be the first to take a new vaccine.

Yes private schools might run better. Shockingly richer and generally two parent families are going to have children that been primed to respect learning and have less trauma so much easier to deal with. Public schools teachers don’t have this luxury.

There certainly could be improvements to public school, some of the curriculum is dumb, but again they have to serve all customers, private schools don’t.

I don’t begrudge public school teachers their vacation.

I also realize this past year+ has been extremely stressful on parents, especially those who can’t work from home

Re: Faced with soaring Ds and Fs, schools are ditching the old way of grading

#224

Post by pksebben »

hintymad wrote: post #190

Some people seem not get it: dropping homework or objective assessment will not help under-privileged students but hurt them. Homework and object assessment are not used to oppress people (what kind of sick mind would think of that?). They are used to give students timely feedback on what they need to improve upon. Just reading books and listening to lectures will help students learn probably 20% or less, and it is h…

it's not about removing assessment, but not penalizing for an assessment that determines there's more learning to do; the point of assessing is to get a sense of what work the teacher needs to do to get the student up to speed.

Re: Faced with soaring Ds and Fs, schools are ditching the old way of grading

#227

Post by bambataa »

wwilim wrote: post #175

A lot of the heated debate here is about racism. I'm not from the US, but in my experience people get terribly inequal opportunities in education even in environments where everyone has the same ethnic background. The most limiting factors as I see them are first and foremost a lack of love and care from one's parents, and second a wealth deficit. Many commenters are also furious about alleged "lowering the bar". Rem…

> The most limiting factors as I see them are first and foremost a lack of love and care from one's parents, and second a wealth deficit.

I have numerous friends who are teachers and they all consistently say that the biggest problem is poor parenting. Primarily disengaged parents or parents who don’t value education.

Of course this is the elephant in the room because no politician is going to blame parents.

It seems to me that all the chat up-thread about schooling vouchers and parental choice are entirely missing the point. The children of engaged parents will probably do ok anyway. It’s the bad parents that are the problem.

Re: Faced with soaring Ds and Fs, schools are ditching the old way of grading

#228

Post by YeGoblynQueenne »

mjevans wrote: post #137
ipaddr wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would paying more for teachers fix the issue? The best teachers will still prefer private school because kids are more displined. You end up paying more for the same or worse now you attract a new group who are in it for the money. Education starts at home and without a learning culture with displine these children are setup to fail.

Easier to understand: Hogwarts. Harry Potter was pried from that little dusty cupboard closet beneath the stairs and sent to somewhere to reach success. Send kids that don't have a good home life to someplace where the adults care and have the resources to see that they do succeed.

Harry Potter was a "chosen one" who was given special attention by his teachers. I don't think his teachers gave the same attention to other students, who didn't have a thunder-shaped scar in their brow and couldn't speak you-know-who's name without wincing.

Rather, I think it was Hermione Granger that embodied the role model of the student from an underprivilged background who works hard to achieve academic success.

Re: Faced with soaring Ds and Fs, schools are ditching the old way of grading

#229

Post by YeGoblynQueenne »

JPKab wrote: post #122
brightball wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Public education is a net good but the implementation model of that education is what’s such a problem right now. There’s a reason so many more kids are home schooled now than ever before and it’s a complete lack of confidence in public schools. Private school waiting lists are a mile long.

I'm a parent of two kids and I couldn't agree more. I went to mostly black and poor public schools my entire childhood. Back then there were a few teachers who clearly didn't care and were never held accountable. Most of the teachers were pretty good though. It's increasingly shifted towards the opposite. I was blown away by how pathetically run my children's public schools are here in Colorado so I put them both in…

>> Name a government agency that's good at hiring, or keeping good talent.

How about NASA?

I'm not a US citizen so apologies if I got that wrong but I figured NASA always had the goods, in terms of personel, even if they also had some bad apples in there.

Re: Faced with soaring Ds and Fs, schools are ditching the old way of grading

#230

Post by DeathArrow »

bedobi wrote: post #114
throwaway23451 wrote: post #5

I’m sure every generation feels like the next is going to turn the world to hell… but what the hell? I find it absolutely bonkers that gifted classes, math, homework and objective performance assessments are suddenly under fire as instruments perpetuating inequality. Does our education system leave much to be desired? Absolutely! Let’s pay teachers more and improve access to quality education for all students, not co…

What you and people like you say it superficially true ("just grade on objective performance!") ...but also completely disingenuous. Student X is an only child, has educated and well paid parents who instill work ethic and have the means, time and ability to commit to helping X get the best grades, including hiring tutors for things they can't or don't have time to teach. X lives in a safe, affluent area and associat…

Life is competition. Life isn't fair. No one will hire you because you are a good person or you endured hardships. They will hire you if they think you are capable to get the job done.

Would you rather undergo surgery by a doctor who learned his craft well or by a someone who has a kind soul and has endured hardships in his childhood?

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