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Faced with soaring Ds and Fs, schools are ditching the old way of grading

latimes.com

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Re: Faced with soaring Ds and Fs, schools are ditching the old way of grading

#101

Post by laserbeam »

I was really hoping this is a decent article about what some teacher or school did about the problem. It starts like that but then it goes kablookie...

So, a certain Joshua Moreno is fed up with the system and did something about that, 2 paragraphs. GREAT. Then the rest of the entire article is about institutionalized racism and how the current system fails us. At no point do we get a good example about what mr Moreno did, only what he moved away from. This is horrible confusing writing.

I'm sorry but this is absolute click bait garbage. I AGREE with the fact that there is institutionalized racism and I aplaud work to reduce that. But this article is misleading, and confusing, and poorly written. There's no concrete idea in it that we could debate here on HN. If there is, someone would have to rewrite and state it clearly.

Re: Faced with soaring Ds and Fs, schools are ditching the old way of grading

#102

Post by mlyle »

WalterBright wrote: post #82
II2II wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The value of homework has little to do with learning. Yes, students can learn from it. On the other hand, it is mostly intended to promote a certain type of work ethic where those who devote additional time and effort have more opportunities for success. Whether this is desirable is a different question. For those in a more supportive environment, it can lead to a narrowness of vision (with respect to both learning a…

> The value of homework has little to do with learning. I learned the hard way that skipping the homework means bombing the test. You don't learn problem solving skills by listening to a lecture or watching TV. It's easy to imagine you've learned it, till you're confronted by the test.

> I learned the hard way that skipping the homework means bombing the test.

This is true in later education, but it seems to not be so helpful in earlier education. You're far better off with supervised practice than unsupervised, at-home practice in younger students.

Re: Faced with soaring Ds and Fs, schools are ditching the old way of grading

#103

Post by asdff »

jimbob45 wrote: post #63
uejfiweun wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How on earth do we de-escalate from here? I feel that in the US it is impossible to summon the political willpower to make it HARDER to graduate HS or go to college, even if these things would make society better off. My personal opinion is that the government should get out of education, just lower our taxes and let the free market handle the rest. Never gonna happen, however.

US HS has an impossibly high skillcap atm to the point of absurdity. One does not simply graduate US HS and come out as an equal to every other HS graduate. The meta these days is to become the most accomplished HS graduate achievable.

Only if you are going for the big guns in college admits. Everyone making ok grades gets into some state school. Might not be the main state school campus but its easy to transfer in from satellite campuses usually.

Re: Faced with soaring Ds and Fs, schools are ditching the old way of grading

#104

Post by SavantIdiot »

xcambar wrote: post #85
eric4smith wrote: post #83

Because of all this I’m super tough on young people that come to work with me. The first thing I tell them is that this is not school anymore. The second thing I tell them is that what they learned in college does not apply here, so forget everything that happened there. Thirdly, I push them super hard. Fourthly, I fire people quickly. Finally, because of this, I go through a good number of people, but the best ones…

I wish you were sarcastic. You're basically ruining people instead of helping them grow. But you probably think "it's not my job" anyway.

Did you actually believe that post was true?

Re: Faced with soaring Ds and Fs, schools are ditching the old way of grading

#105

Post by azth »

throwaway23451 wrote: post #5

I’m sure every generation feels like the next is going to turn the world to hell… but what the hell? I find it absolutely bonkers that gifted classes, math, homework and objective performance assessments are suddenly under fire as instruments perpetuating inequality. Does our education system leave much to be desired? Absolutely! Let’s pay teachers more and improve access to quality education for all students, not co…

It's a snowball effect, once the door has been opened and logic thrown out the window, what's happening is all but unexpected.

Re: Faced with soaring Ds and Fs, schools are ditching the old way of grading

#106

Post by WalterBright »

mlyle wrote: post #102
WalterBright wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The value of homework has little to do with learning. I learned the hard way that skipping the homework means bombing the test. You don't learn problem solving skills by listening to a lecture or watching TV. It's easy to imagine you've learned it, till you're confronted by the test.

> I learned the hard way that skipping the homework means bombing the test. This is true in later education, but it seems to not be so helpful in earlier education. You're far better off with supervised practice than unsupervised, at-home practice in younger students.

I'd get assigned homework all through school, but usually would complete it in 5 minutes in class, as did the others. I can't remember ever having to take something home to do.

The teachers hardly ever filled up the class time, so there was always time to just do the homework.

Re: Faced with soaring Ds and Fs, schools are ditching the old way of grading

#107

Post by secondaryacct »

mlyle wrote: post #26
throwaway23451 wrote: post #5

I’m sure every generation feels like the next is going to turn the world to hell… but what the hell? I find it absolutely bonkers that gifted classes, math, homework and objective performance assessments are suddenly under fire as instruments perpetuating inequality. Does our education system leave much to be desired? Absolutely! Let’s pay teachers more and improve access to quality education for all students, not co…

> homework This is one issue that I'm passionate about. Research increasingly implies that homework is probably harmful in elementary; of dubious value in early middle school; and only valuable in high school and beyond. > and objective performance assessments I think some of these radical experiments are crazy. But, there's valid reasons to consider e.g. not grading missing absent assignments as a zero. A few of the…

A) but that's not the only goal, sometimes you want to teach them it's important to execute on an assignment for the sake of it. Because that s how you deliver in demanding jobs.

B) yes, happened to me in higher education, fucked an Electrical Engineering work assigment, got a crushing 0, dropped the whole thing, focused on Maths and CS, changed school, and became a programmer. Gave me a kick to never fail an assignment ever again, so not sure what to do if the 0s are so many the kid just doesnt care anymore.

C) The teacher doesnt need to change how to measure I think, he needs to change how they deliver: if they cant reach the level, either they must move out because they never will and that s fine, or they must be handled specially so they reach at a different speed with a different method. I ve seen first hand you can teach hard math fast and burn most or slow and get most super motivated. Grades and exams being the same.

Re: Faced with soaring Ds and Fs, schools are ditching the old way of grading

#108

Post by asdff »

tayo42 wrote: post #21
grammarnazzzi wrote: post #2

> Los Angeles and San Diego Unified — the state’s two largest school districts, with some 660,000 students combined — have recently directed teachers to base academic grades on whether students have learned what was expected of them during a course — and not penalize them for behavior, work habits and missed deadlines. That lesson is going to serve them well in the workplace. Teach students that they are entitled to…

I think one of my most important work lessons was deadlines are almost always not real.

Tell that to the client

Re: Faced with soaring Ds and Fs, schools are ditching the old way of grading

#109

Post by mlyle »

zsmi wrote: post #100
mlyle wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> homework This is one issue that I'm passionate about. Research increasingly implies that homework is probably harmful in elementary; of dubious value in early middle school; and only valuable in high school and beyond. > and objective performance assessments I think some of these radical experiments are crazy. But, there's valid reasons to consider e.g. not grading missing absent assignments as a zero. A few of the…

>> homework > This is one issue that I'm passionate about. Research increasingly implies that homework is probably harmful in elementary; of dubious value in early middle school; and only valuable in high school and beyond. Isn't the article about removing homework in high school? Mr. Moreno, the Alhambra High School English teacher, specifically said he no longer gives homework. Doesn't this mean the research indica…

> Isn't the article about removing homework in high school?

It seems to be broader-- speaking to school district policies that cross the entire gamut from elementary to high school-- but the focus is on high school. Certainly I'd say the case for removing homework is weakest in high school. (I only teach one HS class, and my homework load there is pretty light, too).

> I assume the "opportunities to improve essays and classwork" is done outside of normal class hours. Perhaps, the work is done at home. And that they addressed your point A by allowing students to resubmit work, and your point B by removing deadlines. I can definitely see how it could be an improvement.

I think these are very difficult things to drive as a policy from the top down. Removing deadlines just encourages students to dig themselves into a different kind of hole: an insurmountable backlog of work that makes doing any of it feel less worthwhile.

Re: Faced with soaring Ds and Fs, schools are ditching the old way of grading

#110

Post by wrycoder »

HKH2 wrote: post #55
dls2016 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, I don't follow.

HN isn't a place for every conversation, and this is one that people can't go slow enough to digest properly.

Let me try. I believe that are questions that pertain to race, culture, and education that are not inherently racist. There are many people who strongly disagree with that statement.

So, while it’s possible to have a discussion through slow media like monthly magazine articles, it’s almost impossible to have a constructive discussion on fast social media, e.g. HN.

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