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Firefox is the 45th result when searching for “Firefox” on Windows Store

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Re: Firefox is the 45th result when searching for “Firefox” on Windows Store

#21
post #8

As an user, I look at the search results to evaluate the quality of an app store. Microsoft needs to change this problem. Many trash and scam apps are on Microsoft Store for years. User and even developer do not want to download and push their apps in a place like this.

App stores should just have sections curated by humans with reason (and also the wilderness - as a separate section).

I’m not sure how “the Wilderness” compares to the status quo, but you’d always need a search option, wouldn’t you? And since search results have to be in some order, you will need to come up with at least one indicator to sort them. Pure randomness is perfectly “neutral” but also entirely useless.

Case in point: the complaints here are about Firefox ranking badly for a very specific search term that it should dominate. Remove any attempt to assess relevancy will lead to that happening for every search. So what everyone is complaining about will become the norm. How is that supposed to be an improvement?

The strictly-worse option appears better because people are judging intention (as they perceive it), not outcome.

But just giving up on trying to return good search result isn’t the morally unassailable solution people here tend to think it is: randomness is fair in that it treats everyone the same. But the results will be highly unfair. Knowing as much when you set up the process means you’re still culpable for shitty results, even if you didn’t know or intent the specific shittyness of the results.

If there’s rampant fraud in the store you operate, that falls back on you. Throwing up your hands and stopping all efforts to combat fraud doesn’t get you out of this: there was never any doubt that you had the ability to remove items from your store in the first place, nor is there any reason why an attempt to mitigate at least some of the harms would create an expectation to be perfect at it and create liabilities that supposedly didn’t exist before.

Re: Firefox is the 45th result when searching for “Firefox” on Windows Store

#22
The current state of the Windows Store is a holdover from the early 2010's where "number of apps in our app store" became a huge KPI and something for the CEO to tout to the board of directors. Apple and Google kept bragging about these numbers at their respective developer conferences/yearly refresh unveilings and therefore Microsoft was all too happy to accept any and all apps into the Windows Store at the time in an attempt to appear relevant.

Times have changed, though, and you could argue that now many people would like less app clutter and easier discoverability of the apps they actually want. What end user is benefitting from all these carpetbagger apps squatting on Firefox's brand? I don't know what the policy or action looks like to clean this up without instituting heavy hand moderation of the Windows Store but I feel like something has to be done. The way it is now is unsustainable if you want the store to have any value at all.

Re: Firefox is the 45th result when searching for “Firefox” on Windows Store

#23
post #8

As an user, I look at the search results to evaluate the quality of an app store. Microsoft needs to change this problem. Many trash and scam apps are on Microsoft Store for years. User and even developer do not want to download and push their apps in a place like this.

They must have fixed it quick, the Browser from Moz is #1 and that guide is #2.

Re: Firefox is the 45th result when searching for “Firefox” on Windows Store

#24
Or is it? For me, it's the first result. And that's how app stores are supposed to work: once enough users install the app, it skyrockets. AFAIK, Firefox on Windows Store is still pretty new, going from zero to first place shouldn't be instantaneous if rules are fair.

Re: Firefox is the 45th result when searching for “Firefox” on Windows Store

#28
post #22

The current state of the Windows Store is a holdover from the early 2010's where "number of apps in our app store" became a huge KPI and something for the CEO to tout to the board of directors. Apple and Google kept bragging about these numbers at their respective developer conferences/yearly refresh unveilings and therefore Microsoft was all too happy to accept any and all apps into the Windows Store at the time in…

Not just bragging about it, Microsoft was paying people to submit software to pump that number up:

> In a new US marketing effort, Microsoft is offering developers $100 per app for newly published applications submitted to the Windows Phone Store or the Windows Store by June 30th. Developers can net $2,000 in total by submitting up to 10 apps to each store.

https://www.theverge.com/2013/3/19/4124548/microsoft-paying-...

I expect some of its current shovelware still dates back to those efforts.

Re: Firefox is the 45th result when searching for “Firefox” on Windows Store

#29
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

App stores should just have sections curated by humans with reason (and also the wilderness - as a separate section).

I agree, though I might even go further? My controversial take (as someone who ran a very popular software market for a decade myself, which notably didn't do what I am saying, though was effectively handicapped in its search for other reasons): they simply shouldn't have search or discovery of their own, as it is going to be some opportunity for the moral equivalent of a TOCTUO "parser differential" security issue t…

I actually agree.

I never use app store discovery or search, and I don't think anyone who understands the app market does. I think it is mainly used by folks who don't know search engines work better, who are exactly the sort of folks who fall for fake apps and scams, because their flawed assumption that the platform gives a shit about it hasn't yet been corrected.

The other problem, though, is that not having discovery is not really an option. Corporate incentives are such that they basically have to be built. ("Why are you leaving money on the table and control for someone else to grab?")

Re: Firefox is the 45th result when searching for “Firefox” on Windows Store

#30
There are a lot of low effort apps in front of firefox but that's because they published in the store WAY earlier than firefox. So firefox needs some time to go up in the ranking. Every time stores get discussed on HN everyone screams about manipulated store results and now you have one that is organic you are still screaming. Just wait 2-3 days or a week I bet it will be on top.
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