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Tuvalu looking at legal ways to be a state if it is submerged

reuters.com

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Re: Tuvalu looking at legal ways to be a state if it is submerged

#121

Post by malermeister »

otabdeveloper4 wrote: post #104
nharada wrote: post #12

So have we moved from "climate change isn't real" to "it's real but we aren't gonna do anything"? Nobody making long term plans is questioning the science of it, they're just trying to figure out how to be the last ones to starve.

If you really believe what you say, then find a way to short beachfront real estate and reinvest that humongous profit into fixing climate when shit hits the fan.

By the time shit hits the fan, it'll be too late. You can't "fix" the climate, you can only prevent it from getting to a state that needs fixing. (And we're failing at that)

Re: Tuvalu looking at legal ways to be a state if it is submerged

#122

Post by BitwiseFool »

323 wrote: post #117
BitwiseFool wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm certain it would be more than Tuvalu could afford, unless they were granted the money by the UN, which seems unlikely. I also can't help but think the dirt would eventually be washed away regardless. The kind of land reclamation places like the Netherlands do isn't applicable on Pacific Low Islands.

China has experience growing islands in the ocean. They are also the biggest polluter right now and they can afford the cost. If Tuvalu allows them to build a naval base in return maybe the US will get involved just to prevent that.

My understanding is that the Spratly Islands base China has built is not something that can actually sustain a population trying to live traditionally. They've destroyed the reefs and encircled the dredged area with a sea wall that prevents normal sand beaches from existing. While the terraformed island would be above water, you wouldn't have the kind of ecosystem that is viable or productive.

Re: Tuvalu looking at legal ways to be a state if it is submerged

#123

Post by dane-pgp »

bin_bash wrote: post #10
SoapSeller wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They always have the option of building a platform(Sealand[0] like) and claim the territory. Probably there still few advantages to be recognized as nation. Being Tax shelter and selling domains(.tv is somewhat popular) comes to mind. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principality_of_Sealand

Sealand isn't a great example considering nobody recognizes it as a country. Tuvalu might get away with it since they would've been a "real" country in the past.

That brings to mind some interesting ideas. One of the "business models" for Sealand was to be a "data haven", i.e. offer online hosting of data in a jurisdiction which didn't allow searches or seizures of data or servers. Could Tuvalu provide a similar service, possibly from within the territory of a nation which grants them a legally autonomous region?

Similarly, I wonder what would happen if Tuvalu decided its laws should not recognise copyright as a concept any more. The government could run an official "legal" file-sharing site and other countries would have to decide whether to prevent their own citizens from accessing it. I imagine these other countries would lose a lot of sympathy for the people of Tuvalu if such a site were created, though.

Re: Tuvalu looking at legal ways to be a state if it is submerged

#124

Post by robocat »

roywiggins wrote: post #63
bobthechef wrote: post #22

Why not build a system of dikes around the island? What about poldering? Is that feasible here? The island is only 26 square kilometers.

The land area of Fulafuti is 2.4 square kilometers, but the total area of the atoll is 275 square kilometers : it's a ring of islands surrounding a lagoon. The lagoon is 120 feet deep. The atoll is basically the tip-top of a vast underwater mountain that drops away precipitously: there's nothing to build a dike on . https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Funafuti https://tuvalu-data.sprep.org/system/files/Rapport_de_leve_C...

The atolls are made of coral - the rock of the top of the volcanic mountain is more than half a kilometre (> 500 yards) below.

- Drilling explorations at Funafuti from 1896 to 1898 resulted in 340 m long cores comprising shallow-water carbonates. Subsequent analysis of the drill cores suggests a subsidence rate for Funafuti of approximately 30 m/Ma [30 metres per million año/year].

- report on a refraction line in Nukufetau lagoon, concluding that volcanics are capped by approximately 760 m of limestones.

The pdf has great information.

Re: Tuvalu looking at legal ways to be a state if it is submerged

#126

Post by lallysingh »

bmsleight_ wrote: post #125
323 wrote: post #100

Tuvalu is just 26 sq km. How many bulk carriers filled with dirt you need to raise that by a few meters?

440,000 Shipping containers https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=%28%28srt%2829%29*1000...

Note that I believe you're using 2-TEU-size containers. A ship will hold 10-20k TEU. So we're talking about 44-88 shiploads.

Re: Tuvalu looking at legal ways to be a state if it is submerged

#127

Post by mlyle »

bmsleight_ wrote: post #125
323 wrote: post #100

Tuvalu is just 26 sq km. How many bulk carriers filled with dirt you need to raise that by a few meters?

440,000 Shipping containers https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=%28%28srt%2829%29*1000...

(29000000 square meters * 1 meter)/ 66 cubic meters is a cleaner way to do this math. (Or 29 square kilometers).

Note you're using 29 vs. the grandparent's 26, too.

Re: Tuvalu looking at legal ways to be a state if it is submerged

#128

Post by mlyle »

lallysingh wrote: post #126
bmsleight_ wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

440,000 Shipping containers https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=%28%28srt%2829%29*1000...

Note that I believe you're using 2-TEU-size containers. A ship will hold 10-20k TEU. So we're talking about 44-88 shiploads.

If

A) the container ships could tolerate containers full of dirt and rock (nope-- each of these 2-TEU containers would weigh 100 tonnes... compare to gross tonnage of ~200000 tonnes and you're only moving 2000 such containers in a load),

B) the containers themselves could safely tolerate this much mass & weight (nope),

and

B) raising the island 1 meter is enough (probably nope).

Re: Tuvalu looking at legal ways to be a state if it is submerged

#130

Post by BurningFrog »

Do I really have to be the one pointing out this is a well executed PR event?

Tuvalu won't be submerged for centuries even in the worst case scenarios.

They will have incrementally increasing problems from it decade by decade. But that press release will not go anywhere.

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